Need Divine Intervention!

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:22 am

I have my doubts if it is the timing...our little rig has a camshaft position sensor on the exhaust cam.

Together with the crankshaft sensor it tells the ECM what is going on.

If timing was way of, both signals wouldn't match en the ECM would trow a CEL and probably not even fire up the engine.

So..if timing is of, it can only be the intake cam. But...what is that loud banging noise?

If the t-belt slips and there is valve to piston contact, the rockers brake in halve as a failsave. Ergo: it would not run.

But..I just had a VW with a timing belt that jumped 2 teeth and that engine made a helufalotta noise. Without internal damage! New belt, and it ran fine again...

Thinking out loud here....

Ok, after I said all that, let's see what we got:

A loud banging noise.

it will only run 'fine' at stationary rev's, if you push the throttle it dies with loads of smoke

Cil 1 does strange things, Cil 2 produces the loud banging, 3 and 4 seem to be ok (trust me, it will not run 750revs on only 2 cilinders...)

What has Bub done sofar:

Injectors have been taken out and are inspected by a specialist. They are fine.
ECM and wiring have been checked, fuel system is properly bled. Check.

It's not a piston problem, did a blow-by test. Check.

Turbo is ok. Check.

Timing belt is the big ? here before we tell Bub to take the engine apart.

Ow...stupid question:

You a 100% sure it has diesel and not gasoline?

(....I guess you would have smelled that after all the bleeding you did, but it's best to rule that out too)

Here's the howto on the timing belt cover etc:

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=45522

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:27 am

Cylinder cutout test result:

The back cylinder and second-to-back cylinder cause only a momentary dip in idle sound, then the idle returns to normal (still with loud knocking) when the injector is disconnected.

The second-from-front, when disconnected, has the same result but the knocking gets slightly quieter.

The front cylinder, when disconnected, causes the engine to bog down alarmingly but not enough to die. Knocking stays loud, and idle does not recover like on the other cylinders.

mcinfantry · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:39 am

Blowby test only tells you if the piston/rings are fine.... Correct? Bent/broken valves would show on compression test, correct?

mcinfantry · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:38 am

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1t3 ... ileage-she

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:46 pm

Good link.

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

I dont think its cam timing as for the belt but you cant rule out a valve train problem. Camshafts do break and if they break on angle they will still turn and run the engine poorly with noises. Position sensors would not know it was broke. The fact that its is dumping white smoke tells me its a valve train problem or compression problem because dumping white smoke = raw fuel. You should do a compression test before anything else. Anyone know the PSI it should be? Send me a old injector and pressure gage and I will make you and adapter on my lathe. OH and gasoline wont make white smoke so scratch that one.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:24 pm

Hey guys,I just can't thank yall enough for the help and support.

Tony,short of getting the fuel analyzed,I did a good side by side test with smell and color and came up the exact same. Added a bit of gas to one of the test glasses and the smell was overwhelming.

I talked to Lee(mcinfantry) today and he suggested I cut the oil filter open and check for contaminants.
I cut it at just the right spot and pulled the paper out and there was no metal at all.
Lee,I didn't get to check the coolant pressure because I had a BP moment out there in the driveway.My guys are gonna be pissed at me when they open the bandsaw case tomorrow. :mrgreen:

I'm gone clean up.

mcinfantry · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:55 am

I say head gasket, or valves or both... Those would not throw a code.

changingtime · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:48 pm

bub, do you have the gde tune or inmotion or any other power module? just wondering if those were reset to normal...would that have change anything...

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

Starting to sound like its blown between cylinders. Still dont understand the noise though. If its blown to a water passage you could see air bubbles in the coolant with cap removed. Please hurry up and find the problem because inquiring minds want to know.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:49 pm

changingtime wrote:

bub, do you have the gde tune or inmotion or any other power module? just wondering if those were reset to normal...would that have change anything...

Aaron,I've got the SEGR,that's all as far as computer mods.

Hey Baker,I'm gonna find that dang Gremlin,and when I do........ :furious:

I'm gonna kick the everliving S#IT out of him.

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

Then ship him to me so I can stomp his guts out.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:26 pm

I think it is safe to say that we all will line up to take whacks at the little bastage when he is finally exorcised from Bub's truck.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:23 pm

bakersoil wrote:

Starting to sound like its blown between cylinders. Still dont understand the noise though. If its blown to a water passage you could see air bubbles in the coolant with cap removed. Please hurry up and find the problem because inquiring minds want to know.

X 2 billion. I need to know right now what is going on!!

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

Lets take up a pot and winner will be who had the best guess as to whats wrong.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:33 pm

OK guys don't be mad at me,but I just realized Labor Day is next weekend and I'm hosting a get together at my camp(Linewarbr and Fulltimer are gonna make it).I haven't cut grass since a few weeks before my jeep crapped out on me.I'm gonna have to go out there Sat after work if it's not raining and cut all day Sunday.This also takes me out for next weekend,so KJ will have to sit a while.
Here's the thread if'n anyone want's to get a wild hair up their bum.
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=54273&p=615080#p615080

On a good note,I recieved the compression tool from Keith and with a 1/4"npt quickconnect I can mod it to my 1000psi guage with pressure relief valve which will be going back to Michigan fully modded.

Sorry guys,gotta make time for play. :BANANA:

bakersoil wrote:

Lets take up a pot and winner will be who had the best guess as to whats wrong.

I'm guessing it's something wrong with the engine.Now how much pot do I win? :SOMBRERO:

bakersoil · **Joined:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 am **Posts:** 68

At least a dime bag man.

mcinfantry · **Posted:** Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:17 am

I had my injectors pop tested twice. They tested two times by two separate shops.....

It was my injectors.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthrea ... highlight=

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:43 pm

Hey Lee, I'm glad you posted that thread!

I'm just getting started again with the thought process of putting a 4BT into my 97 Grand Cherokee... Any thoughts on what the final performance might be? I've got a lot of learning to do about those engines tho... I know nothing about them currently. Sounds like you have been over and through that engine more than a few times with your situation tho, thanks for documenting in that thread - lots of good reading there.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:57 pm

Hey guys,glad to see this thread resurrected.I'm done playing with the boys and I'm back on it.
Came in to see what the torque is for the crows feet.Justed finished plumbing the pressure guage to Keith's compression tool.
Just put it in #1 and about to torque and test.

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