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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Look at the name on his shirt... This one has been on the tube for quite a while and I suspect is an example of a failed engine/oil starvation issue with their WVO conversion due to oil contamination. They mention a discovery process on SVO conversion on Liberty CRD's that includes incomplete combustion, black smoke and other issues. It may have been this failure that led them to address the injection timing issue, but I don't see how they get around the timing/fuel pressure changes in the pcm when hot fuel conditions are encountered. These are excellent pics of the engine that would otherwise require a teardown to see. Their mention of the CRD smoking badly in hot summertime temps on a hot engine is a clear indication of incomplete combustion, very likely due to poor atomization of the SVO/WVO fuel.

A look at their site reveals these issues with their conversion running on the Liberty CRD, any of which can lead to incomplete combustion and crankcase SVO/WVO contamination. They don't say exactly what happened to cause the oil starvation issue that led to cylinder wall galling and scuffing, but this does point out some of the challenges with common rail diesel systems and the need to account for fuel temp sensors and timing issues.
I wouldn't exactly call this a strong case for engine oiling design related problems on a CRD running D2 diesel fuel. There are similar cases on the VW TDI site tdiclub.com when engine oil carmelization due to SVO contamination caused major engine failure.

Below is a quote from the Golden Fuel site (who is selling this engine online):

"In regards to driving on SVO, Jeep Liberties are fine for driving long distances, but are not as well suited for city driving. When running on SVO, the Jeep Liberty has a tendency to smoke when idling, even for 30 seconds with a hot engine. In addition, there is a big plume of black smoke when pulling away from the stop light. This is not a comforting image for the owners, so GFS made it a priority when we were developing our Computer Modification Programmers to get the Jeep Liberty software to address this issue. By altering the idle timing circuit we were able to clean up the smoking and increase the power and fuel economy.

Besides the smoking issue, which can be addressed, they have some other quirks. Liberties do not take well to shutting down on veggie. With any other diesel that we have converted, you can shut it down on veggie and as long as the engine stays hot it will restart on veggie just like diesel. With the Liberty, it can be 90 degrees outside, engine hot as can be, and if you turn off the vehicle for even 5 minutes on oil, you will have to crank on it for 10 seconds or so for it to start. This means that every errand and quick trip you make, you’ll have to flush with diesel. However, the Liberty is not ideal for a short range driver, or a driver that is not "in tune" with the whole conversion process and theory."

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 Post subject: spot on
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Hi Ranger1, well spotted,

Yep, I contacted the fellow by email and his reply was polymerization, veggie oil and extended time between oil changes.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:20 am 
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My first CRD engine went kaplouie at 8800 miles on Mobile 1 0-40W. Jeep replaced it and I have gone to Amsoil 15W-40 with no more problems.

As for thier oil assesment...get some of the oil and have it analysed by BlackStone or similiar company. They will be able to tell you the TBN and other important numbers that would basically show the oil was in good usable condition.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:29 pm 
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I need to link that quote over to some of the vegoil folks. It pains me that folks would poison these engines with vegetable oil.

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 Post subject: Oil Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:05 am 
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Location: Morgantown, WV
Here’s the oil analysis of the oil in the engine when it threw a rod 150 miles after an oil change at my local Jeep dealer:

Miles on oil: 150
Miles on engine: 87411
Oil Filter: Mopar
Air Filter: Mopar
Oil changed at 87272 (previous change was at 80350)

Iron: 78
Chromium: 1
Nickel: 1
Aluminum: 43
Copper: 1
Lead: 2
Tin: 2
Cadmium: 0
Silver: 0
Titanium: 0
Vanadium: 0
Silicon: 11
Sodium: 5
Potassium: 3
Molybdenum: 83
Antimony: 0
Nanganese: 1
Lithium: 0
Boron: 215
Magnesium: 14
Calcium: 3125
Barium: 0
Phosphorus: 926
Zinc: 1100

Fuel: <.5%
Soot: <.1%
Water: <.1
Vis 40C (CS): [Blank]
Vis 100C (CS): 13.2
TAN: [Blank]
TBN: 9.89

Oxida: 14
Nitra: 14


While I expected my extended warranty to cover this sort of damage, CarMax refused to authorize repairs and asserted that:
-- “Residual oil in the oil pan is dirty and contaminated with metal” which is “not consistent with an engine that just had its oil and filter changed 139 miles earlier”
-- an indication of a “lack of lubrication caused by operating the engine without the ‘proper level’ of oil”
-- the failure may have been caused by an “oil out” condition that was “clear and convincing evidence of the Jeep dealer’s “possible liability.”

Is there anything in this oil analysis that would shed light on these assertions?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:05 am 
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The Iron and Aluminum are a little high for only having 150 miles on the oil. Compare it to these other UOAs http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... c&start=80 The TBN tells that the oil is still almost new and within specs. The high wear metals would be consistent with the bearing scoring.

Ken49 wrote:
While I expected my extended warranty to cover this sort of damage, CarMax refused to authorize repairs and asserted that:
-- “Residual oil in the oil pan is dirty and contaminated with metal” which is “not consistent with an engine that just had its oil and filter changed 139 miles earlier”
-- an indication of a “lack of lubrication caused by operating the engine without the ‘proper level’ of oil”
-- the failure may have been caused by an “oil out” condition that was “clear and convincing evidence of the Jeep dealer’s “possible liability.”

Is there anything in this oil analysis that would shed light on these assertions?


What metal? The pieces which were ground out of the bearing?
As gmctd already pointed out; if the sump was run dry, all four bearings would be burnt, not just the one. This one looks like an oil passage blockage or manufacturing flaw.
CarMax is jerking you around.

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