In case of catastrophic failure...

TJ2 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:31 am

Wobbly wrote:

TJ2 wrote:

I'm definitely interested in this thread. OTOH, the vehicles I've owned haven't had catastrophic engine failure. The single exception was a cracked block on a Ford 302.

If this engine is anywhere near the quality people think it is, most Libertys should have a reasonable life span. I do have concerns about the reliability of mine, but it's related to the electronic garbage Chrysler put under the hood. I'm not worried about the VM.

If the timing belt breaks, or the timing is sufficiently misadjusted, the pistons can meet the valves. Not sure that this can happen with the CRD, but my BMW TD engine had leaking oil seals in the turbo which allowed the engine to run on engine oil. It revved way beyond redline with the ignition off until I blocked off the air supply. That did wonders for its longevity.

Yes, stuff does happen. The runaway engine from oil getting into the intake can happen. . . . among other things.

One thing that will not happen to my engine is a broken timing belt. It will be serviced correctly when it's due. Of course, I could get a defective belt (the one on it could be defective, too), or the tensioner might disintegrate. But, I wonder what the odds of that happening are?

I am concerned about getting parts that commonly wear out. . . starters, alternators, water pumps, those stupid thermostats, common gaskets, AND all that Chrysler electronic crap that may be specific to the VM.

FWIW, I think I read even some gassers are using interference engines to squeak just a little more power out of them.

peace

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

How about replacing the VM with a Cummins 4BT engine? Looks about the same size and it is readly available and not to expensive.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:37 am

Here we go folks everything you need for a full engine rebuild http://www.jeepengines.com.au/Automotiv ... oduct=1199 might cost a little extra to get it here but there it is.

coyrl · **Joined:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:11 pm **Posts:** 15

Be aware that US motors are different than those delivered internationally. The parts are not the same. Buy the parts from a Jeep dealer, online at http://www.jeepoemparts.com or other vendor, maybe Green Diesel Engineering (GDE). I'm not speaking for GDE, bu they may be able to order the parts. I'm currently rebuilding my CRD motor and I've seen the different parts on the US and international motor.

Short blocks and long blocks are available on a limited basis. One thing is for sure, the parts and motors are VERY expensive.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:20 pm

I'm not disputing that some parts might be different due to the idiot EPA requirements here... But what parts have you physically seen different? Or are you talking just the part NUMBERS, as some are tagged "export" and the scarce US parts aren't?

I find it difficult to believe that VM would have made an entire engine special for the NAFTA market, and shipped all the other engines to us for assembly in Ohio that were different than the NAFTA engines. It doesn't make economic sense.

coyrl · **Joined:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:11 pm **Posts:** 15

VM Motori manufactures different configuration of motors depending on the market and emissions regulations. The Jeep delivered in Europe meets the EURO4 requirements and contains slightly different hardware. The camshaft plugs on the US motor are press in, where the international version are screw in with copper washers. This is just one of the subtle differences that make rebuilding this motor difficult.

No big deal, just pointing out there are differences. In my experience with this motor, one must be careful ordering parts. It's and expensive hassle to return ship parts which I've had to do. In addition, I've found several errors in the parts fiche from Jeep.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:43 pm

FastSRT8GC wrote:

The old Chrysler could have been held liable for parts... But remember they completely restructured, They do not have to honor any vehicle they don't want to. Just an example, it took almost 3months to get a piece for my front axle just because of changes in distributors and contract after the bankruptcy. If that was out of warranty I would have been SOL.

It took 3 months for them to get my steering rack too

As I understand the ten year parts availability thing it requires they have a average ten year supply of parts on hand. But one bad slipery winter could deplete the ten year supply of body parts. And a few bad tubo's could use a average ten year supply of engine blocks pretty quick.

Plus there's the "old car company new car company" thing :furious:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:46 pm

grsjax wrote:

How about replacing the VM with a Cummins 4BT engine? Looks about the same size and it is readly available and not to expensive.

They do not make heavy enough front coils for a KJ to run that engine.Major modifications will be needed to shoehorn one of those bad boy's in a KJ.

jinstall · **Posted:** Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:49 am

So has anyone actually bought a new engine and had it installed by Jeep?

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

I had a long block put in by our local jeep dealer. The worst part was the time it took to locate and obtain the engine, almost 3 months. Had to import it from Europe. Have to say the jeep people did everything possible to locate one for me. Otherwise it was pretty much what you would expect. Total cost came to $8k ($4k for the long block, the rest for new injectors and labor). A lot of money but I got the Liberty for cheap and the total came to a bit less than I would have paid for one from a dealer. About 1500 miles on the new engine and it is running great. Getting about 28mpg on the highway and about 22mpg in town.

The reason I needed a new engine is the old one shallowed a valve. The valve dropped into the combustion chamber. Trashed the piston and punched a hole in the head when the piston came back up. The mechanic said he could rebuild it but the cost would have been more than the long block and labor. One lucky break is the dealer had a mechanic familar with the VM 2.8L engine.

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

tjkj2002 wrote:

grsjax wrote:

How about replacing the VM with a Cummins 4BT engine? Looks about the same size and it is readly available and not to expensive.

They do not make heavy enough front coils for a KJ to run that engine.Major modifications will be needed to shoehorn one of those bad boy's in a KJ.

I saw a CJ with a Cummins 4BT in it. Don't know what the owner had to do to put it in there but it looked good and apparently worked well.

Here is a link to a pic of a 4BT in a CJ engine compartment.
http://img67.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ... n_a_CJ.jpg

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:53 pm

grsjax wrote:

I had a long block put in by our local jeep dealer. The worst part was the time it took to locate and obtain the engine, almost 3 months. Had to import it from Europe. Have to say the jeep people did everything possible to locate one for me. Otherwise it was pretty much what you would expect. Total cost came to $8k ($4k for the long block, the rest for new injectors and labor). A lot of money but I got the Liberty for cheap and the total came to a bit less than I would have paid for one from a dealer. About 1500 miles on the new engine and it is running great. Getting about 28mpg on the highway and about 22mpg in town.

The reason I needed a new engine is the old one shallowed a valve. The valve dropped into the combustion chamber. Trashed the piston and punched a hole in the head when the piston came back up. The mechanic said he could rebuild it but the cost would have been more than the long block and labor. One lucky break is the dealer had a mechanic familar with the VM 2.8L engine.

Wow, $8K to repair a Jeep that was worth $10K before the engine died. See, these are the stories that make my stomach turn. :oops:

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

$10K seems kind of low. Kelly BB value for a low mileage good condition diesel jeep in over $17K and the few that show up on local car lots go for more than that. Even with the $8k in the engine I have a lot less than $17k in the jeep. Best thing is I now have a new engine. :pepper:

reka12 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:47 am

GRSJAX: How long ago did they find the engine for you?

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

Feb 2010. Took about 3 months to locate it and get it to the dealer.

jinstall · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:28 pm

My Insurance will not cover it, period. My bank will not cover it either. Did Jeep offer a rental while you waited the 3 months for an engine to be delivered?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:44 pm

grsjax wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

grsjax wrote:

How about replacing the VM with a Cummins 4BT engine? Looks about the same size and it is readly available and not to expensive.

They do not make heavy enough front coils for a KJ to run that engine.Major modifications will be needed to shoehorn one of those bad boy's in a KJ.

I saw a CJ with a Cummins 4BT in it. Don't know what the owner had to do to put it in there but it looked good and apparently worked well.

Here is a link to a pic of a 4BT in a CJ engine compartment.
http://img67.photobucket.com/albums/v20 ... n_a_CJ.jpg

Leaf springs are a whole different story compared to coil springs.

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

jinstall wrote:

My Insurance will not cover it, period. My bank will not cover it either. Did Jeep offer a rental while you waited the 3 months for an engine to be delivered?

No. Was out of warranty.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:22 pm

jinstall wrote:

My Insurance will not cover it, period. My bank will not cover it either. Did Jeep offer a rental while you waited the 3 months for an engine to be delivered?

Are you still making payments too? After having the dealerships cause this with incompetence and bad advice... If your bank won't pursue this because it involves THEIR investment too... If it were me I would tell them which dealer has it and walk away.

pre-existing damage? That is a load of horse pucky and they know it. Any dealer work is supposed to be guaranteed for 12 months or 12k miles, and good with any other dealer licensed by the same manufacturer. Your bank should be on YOUR side on this, not telling you to stick it. Ditto for your insurance company, but I never expect any good service from the insurance industry and I am never disappointed.

Bottom line, I think you need a lawyer on this. They need to PROVE that it was "pre-existing" damage if they want to deny fixing their own screwups from the timing belt install, which could easily damage internal components of the engine. Telling you that you could drive AT ALL with a blown turbo seal is completely bad advice, but unless that was in writing you may not have much recourse on that one.

Step us through it again, and maybe there are more points of contention to lean on Chrysler about this. They need to make their dealers live up to the standards of service if they expect ANYONE to use them for that service. Otherwise, what's the point?

grsjax · **Joined:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:26 pm **Posts:** 61

tjkj2002 wrote:

Leaf springs are a whole different story compared to coil springs.

How about the 4BTA? About 200 pounds lighter than the 4BT.

In case of catastrophic failure...

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