My libby wont start?? - SOLVED

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:39 pm

Paul_d wrote:

It's an 8 hour job to re and re the injector pump, I just had it done. They wanted $3300 for a new pump from Chrysler, it is just a common Bosch pump. We were not 100% sure it was the pump so we had it tested from a local shop, that cost $150 and it tested bad. We bought a rebuilt pump from the same shop for $1200. Later I found a source for brand new Bosch pumps for $1200. If the pump tested good I would still have been on the hook for the labour. I had the timing belt done at the same time because it was all apart anyway so it just cost parts. The mechanic at the Chrysler dealer said he needed some special tools to do the job. I paid flat rate for everything and I am sure it took longer. Jeep runs very well now, before it was blowing a lot of black smoke on acceleration, now very little. Funny all my problems started after changing fuel filter and glow plugs.

Paul what do you attribute the failure of the pump to? Bad fuel?

Paul_d · **Joined:** Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 11

I think it was something to do with fuel supply, if it gets starved for fuel the injector pump does not get enough diesel, the pump is lubricated by the diesel fuel so that could have been the cause or just coincidence. Maybe waited too long to change fuel filter. It was blowing a lot of black smoke before . I still have the old fuel head so maybe I should change it as well. It takes longer to start then before, the mechanic said there was a TSB about the fuel head could cause this.

darinb · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:39 pm

jeepdan wrote:

What is loosing pressure?
I'm not sure that you need a new CP3 pump yet. But if you do, you will need to rent the tools required for the timing belt job and the tool for the injection pump pulley. I have done it and I can offer some helpful tips to make it a less frustrating job.
You do not need to evacuate the air conditioning system as the FSM tells you to.
If needed you can buy a rebuilt pump by Bosch for a little over $800.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300491704625?ss ... 841wt_1185
Yikes, make that $950.00, they just went up over $130.00 since December. :dizzy:

I think what he meant by "losing pressure" was that when he pumped the primer on the fuel head.. he pumped it until it was tight.. then tried to start the engine.. then noticed that the primer was not tight anymore after attempting to start

I will appreciate the help if I have to change the pump. I know GDE rents the timing tools but where could I rent the fuel pump remover tool?

At $950 for a reman.. and $1050 for a new one I am leaning toward the new one. Just my luck the price went up $130. dang inflation!

Paul_d wrote:

It's an 8 hour job to re and re the injector pump, I just had it done. They wanted $3300 for a new pump from Chrysler, it is just a common Bosch pump. We were not 100% sure it was the pump so we had it tested from a local shop, that cost $150 and it tested bad. We bought a rebuilt pump from the same shop for $1200. Later I found a source for brand new Bosch pumps for $1200. If the pump tested good I would still have been on the hook for the labour. I had the timing belt done at the same time because it was all apart anyway so it just cost parts. The mechanic at the Chrysler dealer said he needed some special tools to do the job. I paid flat rate for everything and I am sure it took longer. Jeep runs very well now, before it was blowing a lot of black smoke on acceleration, now very little. Funny all my problems started after changing fuel filter and glow plugs.

That's the same price they quoted me.. $3300 for part and $1200 for labor. I've never had any problems with black smoke or poor fuel economy/acceleration. That is why this caught me off gaurd. I'm still hoping that i just have a ball of tank gunk in my filter though.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:39 am

GDE would have the injection pump removal tool VM.1067 in their 4 box set. I highly recommend putting the allen keys back in the tool box and rent all of the tools required for the timing belt job.
If you have a vacuum gauge to hook up to the filter head bleed, you can perform the fuel supply tests as described in the FSM
to check for clogged filter, clogged supply, or a faulty gear pump on the CP3

darinb · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:40 am

Well $125 dollars later it's back in my garage and I'm back to square one. The mechanic called someone at Chrysler in Charlotte who thinks there could be a problem with the pigtail wire going from the camshaft sensor to the fuel pump. They are throwing all kinds of suggestions at me. They act like once the p0340 error comes up that it has to be electroically calibrated or something that can only be done by the dealer. He made it sound like even if I put a fuel filter in and that was the problem that the camshaft sensor still wouldn't allow it to start. Is there any truth to that or is he just trying to make it seem like the dealer is the only option?

I am at work right now, but I will install the filter tonight.

Should I drain the tank before I try to start the car? Could the fuel treatment cause any damage to the car or is it just breaking up sludge? I'm fighting the urge to just see what the dealer will give me in trade-in value. I love my CRD but I have two toddler daughters to drive around in the morning and my wife works as well and I need a vehicle!

jeepdan wrote:

GDE would have the injection pump removal tool VM.1067 in their 4 box set. I highly recommend putting the allen keys back in the tool box and rent all of the tools required for the timing belt job.
If you have a vacuum gauge to hook up to the filter head bleed, you can perform the fuel supply tests as described in the FSM
to check for clogged filter, clogged supply, or a faulty gear pump on the CP3

Ok thanks for the info on the injection tool. I will definitely rent the stuff from GDE. Do I need a certain type of vacuum gauge? I will just order one, or can I et one at NAPA or something like that?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:50 pm

darinb wrote:

Well $125 dollars later it's back in my garage and I'm back to square one. The mechanic called someone at Chrysler in Charlotte who thinks there could be a problem with the pigtail wire going from the camshaft sensor to the fuel pump. They are throwing all kinds of suggestions at me. They act like once the p0340 error comes up that it has to be electroically calibrated or something that can only be done by the dealer. He made it sound like even if I put a fuel filter in and that was the problem that the camshaft sensor still wouldn't allow it to start. Is there any truth to that or is he just trying to make it seem like the dealer is the only option?

I am at work right now, but I will install the filter tonight.

Should I drain the tank before I try to start the car? Could the fuel treatment cause any damage to the car or is it just breaking up sludge? I'm fighting the urge to just see what the dealer will give me in trade-in value. I love my CRD but I have two toddler daughters to drive around in the morning and my wife works as well and I need a vehicle!

Just change the fuel filter first. Don't get all worked up about pumps and tools. If it hasn't been changed in 45k mi, there's a 90%+ chance that it is your problem. Just change it and I bet the engine runs, you may have to change it again in 1000mi if it clogs again from crap in your tank, but it will clear up.

darinb · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:02 pm

Well that makes me feel better. I changed it around 85k miles and I am now at 128k. It just doesn't seem like it has been that long since I changed it. I will make sure I change it at every other oil change from now on.

darinb · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:22 pm

I put the new fuel filter on and got nothing. The engine does not even sound like it's trying to fire. How do I do the vacuum test to see if it is the injection pump?

Paul_d · **Joined:** Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:15 pm **Posts:** 11

When the dealer mechanic was troubleshooting my CRD he bypassed the whole fuel head and fuel in the fuel tank and hooked up a machine for testing that supplied fuel under pressure directly to the fuel inlet, this proved that the problem was not in the fuel head. this is when they concluded it was most likely the injector pump, but they were not 100% sure about this.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:10 pm

darinb,
You need to down load the FSM.
First you need a way to hook up your gauge. If you saved your old filter head you can modify the old bleeder screw. Otherwise you will have to buy the Miller tool #9663.
#1 After installing the gauge adapter in place of the bleeder screw, pump primer to expel any air.
#2 Restrict the inlet side of the filter by clamping the inlet hose to the filter assembly.
#3 Crank the engine 3-4 times in 15 second intervals while monitoring the vacuum gauge.
Results; The FSM says that the supply pump should draw a least 3 in. of vacuum, if not replace pump.

darinb · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:43 am

Well it turns out that the fan belt flew off. Put a choke hold on the Crankshaft pulley and the timing belt slipped. I have 16 broken rockers and 10 damaged lifters. I should have it back from the diesel shop this week with a $2,000.00 invoice.

spitfire36o · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:27 pm

So a clogged fuel filter caused a stall--> the stall causes a thrown serpentine belt--> the thrown belt jumps the timimg--> and in the end neglected maintenance of a $20 filter leaves you with a $2,000 invoice. Well that's an expensive lesson learned.

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:10 pm

Wow, that sucks. I've heard of that happening on VW TDI engines too, diesels are touchy when it comes to cam/pump timing. I feel like I dodged a bullet last year when my serpentine started shredding itself -- turns out the tensioner bearing had failed; it still had tension on the belt, but it was on its way towards complete failure.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:21 pm

I doubt that a clogged filter induced stall could shred a healthy serpentine belt - but - if the belt were already weakened (old) or stressed (failing alternator clutch) then the stall could have been the proverbial straw. ...and rather poor luck (the serp just happened to wrap itself around the crank in such a way as to cause a cascading failure of an already weakened timing belt).

Ultimately, the lesson is the same I suppose - stay on top of routine maintenance and improve the odds. ; ' )

There are no guarantees tho.

Mark

darinb · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:51 pm

Mechanic thinks the failing tensioner (see 1st post) which was leaning forward and forcing the belt outwards (the raised lip on the pulley below was causing the outer edge of the belt to shred off) threw the belt off (as it had done before).. the belt wrapped around the fan.. was still wrapped around the crank damper pulley which halted it.. meanwhile the rest of the components attached to the timing belt kept moving forward. Mechanic also thinks the dealer didn't have the timing belt tensioner tightened properly when they changed the belt at 100k. Doesn't think the fuel filter had anything to do with it. The same amount of fuel came out of the outlet after putting on the new filter. Thus, the failing tensioner (which conveniently arrived from mopar the next day) caused the belt to fly off and the engine being thrown out of time is what caused it to shut off.

My libby wont start?? - SOLVED

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