Mobil 1 5w-40 in different formulations

amslube · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:04 pm

That is why I run full synthetic. Oil cools and lubricates the turbo bearings/bushings. When the engine is shut down, even after idling for a few minutes after a hard pull, heat soak can cause temperatures to rise and sometimes enough to coke the oil at the turbo bearings/bushings, one of the main reasons for turbo failures.

The flash points on the data sheets for motor oils will tell the story on the oils durability for turbos.

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:20 pm

That's what I was wondering as well but at the same time....won't the 10w-40 only be thicker at startup? After the first few minutes of engine warm up won't the 5w-40 and 10w-40 have the same viscosity? After warm up would be where I would think the heat related stress to the oil would occur in which both oils would offer the same protection against heat wouldn't they? On a side note....I noticed on the forums at bobistheoilguy.com that shell is making (or going to make) a Rotella t6 in 0w-40. Maybe I am late on that one but when I was using 0w-40 Mobil 1 was the only brand I could find that sold 0w-40.

Jim

amslube · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 pm

You are correct....at operating temperature they are all the same viscosity. Data sheets normally tell you this information...viscosity at 40*C and at 100*C.

The first number is more important in cold climates where temps get 0*F or below. You want oil flowing as quickly as possible upon startup.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:10 pm

racertracer wrote:

If heat breaks oil down and our turbo charged engines run hot, wouldn't it make sense to run with a heavier oil from the start?

Like 10w40 synthetic?

RT, what you want is an oil that flows very well at cold temps to prevent startup damage, which is where 75% to 90% of engine wear happens, which also provides adequate protection at operating temps, and which has an additive package that can cope with the soot and acid load expected. In our case, for service in areas where below freezing temps are normally encountered, it would seem logical to pick a 0W-40 or 0W-50 synthetic with proper additives, which would seem to include 1500-1600 ppm ZDDP. Right now I know of no such lubricant.

It would also seem to make sense to consider both supplemental filtration and supplemental cooling to reduce abrasive wear from soot and to lower the temp of the oil to extend service life of the motor.

I am giving very serious thought to bypass filtration of the lube oil, to supplemental oil cooling, and to some way to provide a little extra oil pressure to ensure proper flow. I am also mulling around the idea of flushing or cleaning this engine to get rid of some of the soot and other schmutz that has evidently built up in the interstices of the motor.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:59 pm

Tradition thinking (still current thinking on bobistheoilguy.com) is that the larger the spread, the more likely 'shearing' is to occur. That is, heat mostly, will eventually break it down to the viscosity of the base stock used.

EX: 10/40 has a 30 grade spread (shearing unlikely)
5/40 35
0/40 and 0/50 are way out there. (may be more susceptible to shearing)

Mobil's site (not available in US) shows 5/50 'Peak Life' with a great add/pack The guys who read and talk oil every day say that is too much spread.

The amsoil guy here keeps saying he uses 'synthetic' oil. He's implying Mobil et al are not. They are in fact Group III hydrocracked base. Look up the Mobil vs Castrol lawsuit where the judge ruled processed hydro carbon was synthetic. That's when all the dominoes fell away and all the majors went with the cheaper process.

That, combined with add/pack changes for DPF, changed everything about synthetic, or processed hydro carbon based oil now 'legally' called synthetic.

IMHO, the grade and quality of oil are important. MORE important is the OCI.

DocB · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:54 am

I run a bypass filter and it is one of the two best mods that have been done thus far. UOA is being used to determine OCI and type of oil.
This is also being done on an old 2002 7.3L Powerstroke.
Although Tribology in and of itself is a very interesting and facinating subject, I am finding it particularly interesting how it relates to my particular engines in the real world.
Even though I have been aware of the Zinc deficiencies in todays oils, all this talk of Zinc has rekindled my interest in trying a Zinc additive at the next OC.

OT-Have ben using M1 0W-40 and 5W-40 TDT thus far in the CRD.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 am

What is a by-pass filter and how does I work?

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:54 pm

racertracer wrote:

What is a by-pass filter and how does I work?

A bypass filter takes the lube oil and rather than filtering the oil going in to lube the engine, which requires either larger filtration pores or an enormous filter to limit head loss from the filtration step, the bypass filter takes oil and using a much finer filter ( like a 1 or 2 micron filter) as opposed to the typical full flow pore size of 20 or 30 microns, filters the oil at a lower rate and returns it to the engine.
Since it doesn't have to filter all the oil used, it can take the time needed to filter some of the oil very thoroughly. This reduces the soot load and keeps the oil cleaner, with less crud riding around in the lube.

The centrifuge (I think it was Warp2Diesel) that's been written up here does the same thing, just using a different separation method. It takes the soot out. This is a Good Thing, which is why I am interested in trying it.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:58 pm

TJ2 wrote:

Tradition thinking (still current thinking on bobistheoilguy.com) is that the larger the spread, the more likely 'shearing' is to occur. That is, heat mostly, will eventually break it down to the viscosity of the base stock used.

EX: 10/40 has a 30 grade spread (shearing unlikely)
5/40 35
0/40 and 0/50 are way out there. (may be more susceptible to shearing)

Mobil's site (not available in US) shows 5/50 'Peak Life' with a great add/pack The guys who read and talk oil every day say that is too much spread.

The amsoil guy here keeps saying he uses 'synthetic' oil. He's implying Mobil et al are not. They are in fact Group III hydrocracked base. Look up the Mobil vs Castrol lawsuit where the judge ruled processed hydro carbon was synthetic. That's when all the dominoes fell away and all the majors went with the cheaper process.

That, combined with add/pack changes for DPF, changed everything about synthetic, or processed hydro carbon based oil now 'legally' called synthetic.

IMHO, the grade and quality of oil are important. MORE important is the OCI.

So who besides Amsoil is actually using real syn base? I vaguely recalled the controversy about Mobil-1 not being 'real' synthetics, but until the Liberty came into my life I frankly did not worry too much about lube oil chemistry. Now it is a significant concern, given the wear I am seeing.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:00 pm

DocB wrote:

I run a bypass filter and it is one of the two best mods that have been done thus far. UOA is being used to determine OCI and type of oil.
This is also being done on an old 2002 7.3L Powerstroke.
Although Tribology in and of itself is a very interesting and facinating subject, I am finding it particularly interesting how it relates to my particular engines in the real world.
Even though I have been aware of the Zinc deficiencies in todays oils, all this talk of Zinc has rekindled my interest in trying a Zinc additive at the next OC.

OT-Have ben using M1 0W-40 and 5W-40 TDT thus far in the CRD.

So what kind of bypass setup are you using? Could I please ask for a post on that with a writeup and pictures? I am very interested in this.......

amslube · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:50 pm

I posted a link somewhere else on this forum to some pictures of the AMSOIL By-Pass unit I have on my Liberty CRD. Here it is again: http://www.syntheticlubes.com/crd_bypass.html

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:45 am

User113 mentioned the MicroGreen filter (H/T to User113) in the Rocker thread and I Ixquicked it and found this-

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/how-it-works

This looks interesting, and User113 is right, this may provide acceptable filtration and reduction of soot without a bunch of expensive modifications to the motor. ( Oh darn! :lol:

) They don't show a filter for our CRD, so I looked up one for the Ford Ranger I also drive, and those are not cheap at $18 per filter versus $8 to $10 for a Wix.

Let's see- if we replace rockers every 100k miles, that's about $500. Maybe less if we can get just pins and/or rollers, but say $500. The MicroGreen filter costs about an extra $8 to $10, times 17 filter changes equals $136 to $170 extra cost. Compare this against the wearing out of rockers, plus whatever other wear savings that accrue, which may be considerable; the turbocharger is a high dollar wear item and cannot be rebuilt according to Garrett. (we shall see, but that is another story.)

It strikes me that the MicroGreen filter may be a good option, but the pics posted today of rocker wear have convinced me that supplemental filtration of some sort and oil additives are ESSENTIAL if engine longevity is to be achieved.

[Edited to add credit to User113 for the MicroGreen filter idea]

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:14 am

I love a good product but when it sounds/looks too good to be true I don't plan to try it.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:22 am

papaindigo wrote:

I love a good product but when it sounds/looks too good to be true I don't plan to try it.

I hear you, but he stated his data from UOA showed a reduction from 0.7% particulates (which is well within acceptable design range for soot, BTW) using a Napa Gold filter, to 0.2% particulates at 6,000 miles. He is using a GDE tune. I would love to see data from somebody running stock w functional EGR.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:43 am

Agreed comparative data would be nice but I'm not willing to try a 30K mile oil change interval; heck I'm not even willing to try the Owner's Manual 12.5k mile oil change interval. I'm sticking with 6K miles.

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:43 am

Here you go:

This shows both UOA I have had done. The first was about 1 year ago and the second was from May of this year. My CRD is basically 100% stock. I still have not done the EHM or the ORM :shock:

(I know I know....shame on me) so the EGR is functional (assuming it still functions and is not stuck.....as far as I know it has never been replaced. My wife had it when when met and that was at about 60,000 miles or so). My CRD had 0w-40 used at about 6,000 mile intervals up until last year. Last year I switched to Mobil 1 5w-40TDT. I am planning on using a 4,000 mile interval from here on out. Kinda' short and will add up but I need to keep her running for as long as possible.....especially since I tow my concession trailer almost every weekend during the spring and fall.
Looking at the UOA....I was kinda surprised to see that the last UOA from 5/2012 showed .5% insolubles whereas the previous one showed .4% even though the mileage on the oil was longer. As far as filters....I was using a Purolator filter until the last 2 changes. When I changed the oil on 5/22/12, I changed over to the oversized Mobil 1 filter. I'm going to be changing the oil in the next week or so and I'll get a sample of it. It will be my first UOA using the oversized Mobil 1 filter. When looking at this UOA, the newest sample is on the left and the older one is on the right with an average in the middle.

Jim

EDIT: If the image isn't readable enough...just let me know and I'll post a direct link to photobucket.

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:05 pm

On a side question....at this point with 117,000 miles could there be any issues with unplugging the MAF sensor to disable the EGR? I didn't know if unplugging it with this many miles, soot buildup, etc would cause any issues if it is not functioning or stuck or something. I would hate to unplug it and have it cause an issue.

Thanks, Jim

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:58 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Agreed comparative data would be nice but I'm not willing to try a 30K mile oil change interval; heck I'm not even willing to try the Owner's Manual 12.5k mile oil change interval. I'm sticking with 6K miles.

I agree WRT OCI, but the idea of using an internal bypass filter to reduce soot load is attractive.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:54 pm

kissfan79 wrote:

The other thing of note that Blackstone pointed out was both oil samples had a high viscosity rating. The viscosity rating should have fallen between 66-76 SUS. The 0w-40 had an SUS rating of 108.3 and the 5w-40TDT had an SUS rating 83.6. So....in both oils there was definitely some thinning of the oil.

Jim

Wait, if I read your post right, Blackstone said your oils got THICKER, not thinner. This thread went off on a tangent talking about oils thinning out.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:15 am

kissfan79 wrote:

Here you go:

This shows both UOA I have had done. The first was about 1 year ago and the second was from May of this year. My CRD is basically 100% stock. I still have not done the EHM or the ORM :shock:

(I know I know....shame on me) so the EGR is functional (assuming it still functions and is not stuck.....as far as I know it has never been replaced. <snip>)

Jim

EDIT: If the image isn't readable enough...just let me know and I'll post a direct link to photobucket.

My guess is that your egr is blocked which would explain the relatively low soot load.

Mobil 1 5w-40 in different formulations

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