Possibly NO Liberty CRD for 2007. Comments Anyone?

Milous · **Joined:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:51 am **Posts:** 21

oldnavy wrote:

Well I don't know where you guys get your info about the CRD Liberty not being here in '07, but I can tell you this, you will be able to buy the Liberty CR in '07 as well as a CRD Dakota, and a MB Bluetec Durango as both engines have passed '09 EPA. Unless something changes you will not be able to buy a gasoline powered car in '11 as mfgs say they can't meet the requirements. But diesel engines seems to be the only one to be able to clear that hurtle. I said it and if I have hurt your feelings, to bad.

NO diesel for the 2007 Liberty, 2007 Dakota or 2007 Durango. Calendar year 2007 is a different story, production of the all-new 2008 KK series Liberty starts in August and most likely will offer the new 3.0 Bluetec engine that is debuting in the 2007 Grand Cherokee.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

2007 Liberty features

-Renegade model discontinued
-Common-Rail Diesel (CRD) no longer available
-Electronic throttle control added to 3.7L engine
-Features and options nearly identical to 2006 models

Engines/Transmissions/Transfer cases:

3.7L V6 with ETC (210 hp/235 torque)

6-speed manual w/overdrive
4-speed automatic w/overdrive

NV-231 Command-Trac
NV-241 GII Command-Trac
NV-242 Selec-Trac

Exterior Colors:

Black
Bright Silver Metallic
Inferno Red
Jeep Green Metallic (new)
Light Khaki Metallic
Midnight Blue
Stone White

Interior colors:

Khaki
Medium Slate Gray
Khaki/Light Graystone
Slate Gray/Light Slate Gray

Navigation:

RB1

---Milous

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

It has BOLD headings..... it must be true :-)

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

And speaking of new diesel emmissions equipment, I read where Peugeot was working on better diesel in-cylinder burn control, as particulate filters and burn-off strategies were imposing ~ 8% in fuel economy.

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:55 am

Milous wrote:

NO diesel for the 2007 Liberty, 2007 Dakota or 2007 Durango. Calendar 2007 is a different story, production of the all-new 2008 KK series Liberty starts in August and most likely will offer the new 3.0 Bluetec engine that is debuting in the 2007 Grand Cherokee.

What's your source for this information?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:14 am

KJbob wrote:

Milous wrote:

NO diesel for the 2007 Liberty, 2007 Dakota or 2007 Durango. Calendar 2007 is a different story, production of the all-new 2008 KK series Liberty starts in August and most likely will offer the new 3.0 Bluetec engine that is debuting in the 2007 Grand Cherokee.

What's your source for this information?

Probably Jeepforum.com or the Allpar.com forum most likely. I have never seen so much disinfo, diesel harrassment, and just plain stupidity as on those two forums.

Endurance · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:48 am

the big dog wrote:

:) kinda like the difference betweena v6 and a v8 gas, it is very comparible to the difference in 4.7 v-8 and the hemi. 60 more hp, over 100 lbs of torque. none traceable 2 min on an off, at least 2 miles per gallon on highway, retail around 600 but if you can find a distributor probably can get it for 500. WARNING:one item if you are having the shudder or glowplug problem it will enhance it GREATLY.

There is a better module out though. Someone recently started a thread about it. It has a small gauge display and apparently delivers up to 90 more hp and 150 lb. Dont quote me on the hp and torque numbers since I didnt see it for myself. Just check out the thread.

valkraider · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:29 am

It is possible that the *MODEL YEAR* 2007 will contain no diesel models - if they are having trouble re-tooling for the new diesel requirements on MY 2007 vehicles.

There is speculation about this in the VW forums as well.

VW has extended their production of the 2006 TDIs all the way to the last Calendar day of 2006 (usually they would stop in the late summer and start with the next model year).

The speculation as to why this is - is that they cannot make 2007 models, so they will make as many 2006 models as they legally can, and then there will be a gap until they start making the 2008 models as soon as they have things ready.

DC might be in the same boat, or a similar one at least.

But this is all speculation. We will all know for sure in 8 months.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Yes, it possible, while we're speculating. I also read where Mercedes is introducing 2 ML series diesel models, using the V6 3.0 Mercedes engine and a V8 diesel on the higher end ML 420. This is in addition to the E320 CDI and GRand Cherokee using the same V6 diesel engine as the ML320. They are phasing in the emission controls, using particulate and Nox traps until 09, then adding SCR to models requiring it.

They may not want low end competition from the Liberty CRD. That's why I find it puzzling that there is speculation that the Liberty would use the same Mercedes V6 diesel. Mercedes has traditionally not used these engines on the low end of their spectrum. Unless the cost of using their own V6 is less than the retooling needed in Toledo North to support both the DD Centro 2.8 CRD for the European models and the V6 for the US, it doesn't seem to make sense to replace it. Another point in favor for the 2.8 CRD for me, is the cast iron block, while the V6 is aluminum alloy with gray iron cylinders. I prefer iron blocks for strength, but for others it may make no difference.

On another web site I ran across a quote from the head of VW, where he stated that diesels would not be abandoned due to the excessive cost of the new emissions controls, but they would only exist on the larger cars. The Golf was cited as one vehicle where the cost of the new emissions controls was more than their cost to build the 1.9 TDI diesel engine.
I wish I had saved that link.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:41 pm

It appears that VM will have no problem meeting '07 EPA requirements if you read the spec of the CRD and technology used, pretty much the same as MB except iron block, they use same type injectors, glowpluggs, with ability to use particulate traps and urea for NOX. They may replace the Liberty with different vehicle in the near future but the use of diesel will depend on market the vehicle is aimed at, like Wrangler will never see a diesel becuase too small of a market they would say. My opinion is all Wranglers should be diesel, with no gas option but that would make for expensive play toy.

My info stated first vehicle besides PU & Libby to see the diesel will be Durango with the Blutec MB V6 in what is basically a MB SUV ML320 chassis with cheap stupid Dodge body. It Dodge's high end SUV and in it's best mpg configuration is only rated 19 mpg's, with that MB V6 diesel that has as much torque at the Hemi V8 instead of 16 mpg with tail wind headed down hill you could easly get low to mid 20's or maybe even upper 20's. Just think how that would help sell a SUV that size, that beats out the hybrid SUV's for both mpg's and pulling power for the boat or trailer.

Toyota has anounced it will have a diesel in it's Tundra PU for '07, and the Dakota is about the same size and would be great with 2.8L CRD. People have already discovered that diesel PU & utility vans last longer, cheaper to operate, and have more usuable power. If you don't thing a work PU under $30,000 will sell like hot cakes you haven't been in touch with the market. Why do you think the Liberty CRD sold so well, MPG's, power and under $30,000 in a nice SUV.

Guys I tell you all the nay sayers that say "no diesels for '07" or after '06 for any mfg in US are just smoke up your stupid for what ever their reason. What you will see is some models of gas engines being dropped for '07 then again more in '09 as there is no way they can meet the EPA spec for whatever reason. EPA '11 is not meetable with current gas engine technology, but diesel can. Unless EPA is gotten under control we will all be driving electric cars or E-85 cars if they could get them to meet the MPG requirements. Imagine a 30% to as much as 50% mpg loss with E85 use, in other words your 40 mpg Toyota would drop to a 20 to 28 mpg vehicle. I don't think once people find that out E85 will die on the vine.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I have compared the DD Cento 2.8L 4 and their 3.0L V6 diesel emissions figures with BMW's, Mercedes and even Honda's all aluminum 2.2L diesel - it's very close in comparison, if you normalize the data to grams per liter of engine size. The BlueTec emmissions controls are mostly downstream cleanup anyway. DCX may not want to give away their ECM code that controls those downstream controls to Bosch for a while, until they can sell enough high end Mercedes product to profit from their investment. Nothing worse for them than to see Bosch selling a reverse engineered version of their BlueTec system to all of their competitors in 08.

I would be very interested in either a Durango, Dakota or Ram 1500 1/2 ton pickup with a DD 3.0L V6 diesel. Dual vgt turbos, 220 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. Even better would be something like the new Ford built 3.6L diesel V8 for Land Rover, with nearly 270 hp and 472 ft-lbs of torque, at least for the Ram 1500 and Durango. I can't see DCX using their high end 4.0L diesel in these mainstream vehicles as they seem to show up in the S500 Mercedes most of the time.

The 2.8L is a great fit for the Liberty and Wrangler, but I don't see the Wrangler getting one anytime soon either, until someone realizes that the EPA has to stabilize their requirements and do a better job of matching available technology, clean fuel and emissions standards. It's just too expensive at the Wranglers price point and limited sales volume. I say the EPA should go for broke and tighten down the CO2 requirements on all gasolene engines to the same degree they did for NOx in diesels. Let's see how long that would last.

Endurance · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:10 pm

jinstall wrote:

Wow I am amazed at how little most people know about diesels frrom Europe.

4.0L V8 MB found in the S class and the ML, lots of power and fun as hell to drive. My ML I had for 2 weeks got 23.4 MPG at 112mph on the autobahn.

CRD is avalible in 300C WAGON and sedan, Grand Caravan, PT Cruiser, Cherokee(KJ) and Grand Cherokee.

I have over 3000 miles on my KJ so far and I cruise at 95-100 mph, I have not had an issue yet with it. I drive the piss out of it. I enjoy the most the ESC when it kicks in and out going around curves and the tires howling. Full power ABS shuttering stops from 100mph could not even get the tranny to shudder.

When the US has to start paying $5-$8 a galon then the magic of diesel will shine through. The other day I filled up the Liberty and it cost $90 to fill the tank. The people that are getting diesels now are starting to wake up and realize what's coming.

The only issue I have is with the driveline vibration at 100mph. I need to take it in and have it checked.

Nabbend,

What is the fastest you have done in the KJ, downhill and on a straight part of the Autobahn? I always wondered what the top speed was, have to try it out sometime

Milous · **Joined:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:51 am **Posts:** 21

KJbob wrote:

Milous wrote:

NO diesel for the 2007 Liberty, 2007 Dakota or 2007 Durango. Calendar 2007 is a different story, production of the all-new 2008 KK series Liberty starts in August and most likely will offer the new 3.0 Bluetec engine that is debuting in the 2007 Grand Cherokee.

What's your source for this information?

I am the source of the information. My track record for future information posted on JeepsUnlimited.com, WJJeeps.com and WKJeeps.com over the years should speak for itself.

As mentioned the 2007 model Grand Cherokee will have the new Bluetec diesel.

The 2007 model Dodge Ram 2500/2500 will be introduced this fall with the current 5.9L diesel. But midway through the model year, in early 2007, the 5.9 will be dropped and replaced by the new 6.7L Cummins turbo diesel (325 hp @ 2,900 and 610 torque @ 1,600).

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I am the source of the information

In that case, be sure and inform DCX. I'd hate to see them veer off course without consulting the source.

Milous · **Joined:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:51 am **Posts:** 21

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I am the source of the information

In that case, be sure and inform DCX. I'd hate to see them veer off course without consulting the source.

They already know.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:38 am

Milous wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I am the source of the information

In that case, be sure and inform DCX. I'd hate to see them veer off course without consulting the source.

They already know.

That reminds me, I need to check out the trolling motor on my father's boat.

groucho · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:18 am

Two Options if 2006 is the last year for the CRD:

1. Put in garage, maintain but don't drive, bring out in 15 or 20 years for resale. Since relatively few were manufactured, it might be valuable. Debatable. If you think this is way to go, buy more NOW!

2. Put in a 200,000 mile supply of fuel/oil filters and run the wheels off of it. Might want to stock the other replaceables also - egr valves, ccv, etc.

Once you became the legal owner, in terms of "resale" value, the issue of the 2007 CRD became moot. My guess is that most buyers bought it to drive.

So, drive....

Milous · **Joined:** Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:51 am **Posts:** 21

retmil46 wrote:

That reminds me, I need to check out the trolling motor on my father's boat.

Are you alluding that I am a trolling here?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:00 am

Milous wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

That reminds me, I need to check out the trolling motor on my father's boat.

Are you alluding that I am a trolling here?

Oh surely not dude.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:30 am

So if there is no CRD Liberty in 2007, any predictions on what that will do to the resale value on a 2005 model?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

So if there is no CRD Liberty in 2007, any predictions on what that will do to the resale value on a 2005 model?

The same thing that happened to the 2004 Passat TDI. Try to buy a used one in good shape and see how much in demand they are.

Possibly NO Liberty CRD for 2007. Comments Anyone?

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