RAM 5.7L HEMI TC Vane angles vs KJ TC

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:34 am

well put! And, if you are determined to run the Euro TC then shoot me a PM and I'll save you some cash :SOMBRERO:

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:40 pm

So, if I understand this (and some of it is a bit too technical for me) if we want a replacement TC that is strong and probably better suited to our CRDs, then the Mopar TC for the Ram Hemi 5.7 is a good and inexpensive choice? The Suncoast - while excellent, is very probably rather more than is needed unless we are undertaking RADICAL (and probably lethal) engine performance mods WAY beyond the GDE Hot tune? I want to check, because I have no real issues with paying for the Suncoast as I intend to keep my KJ until it finally falls apart or whatever, but if there is an acceptable and cheaper option, I won't turn my nose up at it.

Would pairing the Ram TC with the Transgo kit be a good idea?

I don't need to do anything yet (the Euro is still working fine) but I like to anticipate the future as far as possible, rather that have it bite me on the backside!

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:12 pm

Lancer wrote:

So, if I understand this (and some of it is a bit too technical for me) if we want a replacement TC that is strong and probably better suited to our CRDs, then the Mopar TC for the Ram Hemi 5.7 is a good and inexpensive choice?
Correct - plus the added benefit of improved hydraulic transfer, which means the KJ will move off the line with much less applied accelerator pedal and pre-lockup rpm will be lower in any gear - can result in improved fuel economy
The Suncoast - while excellent, is very probably rather more than is needed unless we are undertaking RADICAL (and probably lethal) engine performance mods WAY beyond the GDE Hot tune? Correct, and I concur with respect to the SUNCOAST unit
I want to check, because I have no real issues with paying for the Suncoast as I intend to keep my KJ until it finally falls apart or whatever, but if there is an acceptable and cheaper option, I won't turn my nose up at it. IMOP, the SUNCOAST, while excellent, is overkill for the KJ, particularly for those who would like to upgrade for street use but cannot afford higher priced options

Would pairing the Ram TC with the Transgo kit be a good idea? The TRANSGO shift improver kit services the valve body with new springs and baseplate stiffener, and new springs and stuff for the front pump, so you should add their 45RFE HD kit as part of any upgrade

I don't need to do anything yet (the Euro is still working fine) but I like to anticipate the future as far as possible, rather that have it bite me on the backside!

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:25 pm

Thank you gmctd for your very fast and helpful reply.

I'll order both the Hemi TC and the shift kit; where would you recommend I order from? As I'm in England, there is no chance of getting these parts over here so I'll have to import in any event.

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:10 pm

"The KJ 2.8L will have lower stall with the Hemi-verter than the 5.7L due to lower developed power - so, us manly-men should know what steps are necessary to prevent excessive lugging with the desired increased hydraulic coupling "

What about us less manly men? What steps are necessary?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:54 pm

Simply, as demonstrated here on numerous occasions, you need to get engine rpms up to stop lugging, so shift out of overdrive, or shift to lower range - same scenario as preventing lugging with a manual transmission, right?

You can try some of the online DCJ oem parts suppliers, some of whom advertise on eBay - most suggest contacting them for unadvertised items, which they will usually discount - and you'll first need to enquire about availability of over-seas shipping

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:42 pm

Ah, I thought there might be another approach! I can just about manage that

I'll have a look around. Thanks again for your help and your quick replies.

Lancer · **Posted:** Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:05 pm

Quick question on the Transgo - is it the SK-545RFE kit that I need, thats the one without the resistor? I recall reading on here some time ago that its not worth the hassle fitting the resistor because the TCM just adapts to it after a while and negates it.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:22 pm

Correct, you do not need the resistor for reason you've stated - if you decide you want to try it later, the identical resistor is available from RADIO SHACK for ~20cents

If your KJ is hi-mileage and you're not replacing the front pump, get the larger kit with the springs'n'stuff for the front-pump, which address some wear-n-tear in that area

rancherman · **Posted:** Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:52 pm

gmctd wrote:

Correct, you do not need the resistor for reason you've stated - if you decide you want to try it later, the identical resistor is available from RADIO SHACK for ~20cents

If your KJ is hi-mileage and you're not replacing the front pump, get the larger kit with the springs'n'stuff for the front-pump, which address some wear-n-tear in that area

radio shack is goin' bye bye..

Lancer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:12 am

Thanks gcmtd, I've only got 80k on it, but I'll think about a new pump anyway. I'll get the larger kit, and anything unused can go into the "bound to come in useful one day" box

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:23 am

'Nuther tip fer ya: post your model year in your sig, '05 -'06 - '07 - will help in determination of which info is pertinent to your KJ

F'rinstance: not sure how it has been handled off-shore, but most '05's and some '06's will require new front pump, as all parts for leaky original issue have been obsoleted and are no longer available
- F37 should have remedied this, but some dealers replaced TC without replacing front pump, prefering to clear obsoleted parts from on-hand stock
- original front pump required three (count'em - 3!) seals: pump cover outer o'ring to case, cover to pump-hub seal, and pump-hub to TC seal
- revised front pump requires two seals: pump cover outer o'ring to case, pump cover to TC seal

Lancer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:42 am

Thanks gmctd, I have an 05. I have no idea if the pump was replaced, the sheet I received simply said that the F37 recall work had been completed to spec. I'll get a new front pump just to play safe.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:09 am

Suggestion:
- see if Dealer has one on-hand when you start the job
- pull yours down, look at the stamped steel pump-cover plate
- if the TC hub seal is in the stamped-steel cover, you have the revised pump, no need to replace the pump at your low mileage, just the seal
- if the pump cover seals to the stationary pump hub, with a 'nuther seal in that hub for the TC drive hub, time for replacement

Lancer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:57 pm

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate the help.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:34 pm

gmctd wrote:

Suggestion:
- see if Dealer has one on-hand when you start the job
- pull yours down, look at the stamped steel pump-cover plate
- if the TC hub seal is in the stamped-steel cover, you have the revised pump, no need to replace the pump at your low mileage, just the seal
- if the pump cover seals to the stationary pump hub, with a 'nuther seal in that hub for the TC drive hub, time for replacement

Probably a dumb question, but you do have to pop the cover off to tell which you have?

Thanks for the continued advice on this!

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:59 am

Good question - a pic of the revised pump\cover is in this post from the original article:

viewtopic.php?p=255007#p255007

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:23 am

ah, ok. Thanks again! Dang it, mine looks much different.

Auberon · **Posted:** Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:15 am

Too concerned about the rhetoric.....and one quote from crdjon long ago sticks in my mind:
"....... now if I could just lower the higher RPMs from my hemi TCM, it would unbelievable......"
Given that the hemi TC is designed to achieve sync somewhere between 2000-2300 rpm from my research and other sidebars which one cannot decipher as useful or not.

I decided to go with what could basically be described as a "Low stall; heavy duty - for towing" TC which I got for a fair unit price and moderate freight source: torqueconvertors1. Johnny is extremely helpful and quick to reply.

Rightly or wrongly that is the way I am going as "ruggedizing" measure that should serve to improve driveability for my operating conditions.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:38 am

FYI:

a. Any given torque converter connected behind various engines of different output power will give various stall speeds directly corresponding to delivered power of each engine

b. Any given torque converter connected behind various engines of closely similar output power will give similar stall speeds directly corresponding to that similar delivered power

'Nuther words, the Hemi TC behind the 5.7L V8 Hemi engine will give stall speed directly proportional to the power output of that engine

- the Hemi TC behind the 2.8L I-4 CRD engine will give lower stall speed directly proportional to the lower power output of that engine

- increase the KJ CRD power output and the stall speed will increase accordingly

- similarly, the medium-stall KJ TC behind the 5.7L Hemi V8 would become a hi-stall ~4500rpm (est) convertor suitable for hard-core drag racing: more power = more slip = holeshot

CRDJON was referring to the specific control ranges of the Hemi TCM that I sent for his comparison, meaning that the shift points for the 0-7000rpm V8 engine were higher than the oem KJ 0-4000rpm CRD TCM - he was wanting the Hemi TCM to up-shift at lower rpm similar to the shift-points of the KJ TCM

And, finally :
- the oem KJ TC had a plastic stator, with an upgrade to aluminum in F37 recall - all current KJ TCC's have the upgraded aluminum stator

- the oem Hemi TC has always had an aluminum stator

- SUNCOAST Hemi TC gets a machined "billet" aluminum stator with increased-element sprag clutch, required to withstand 450-600hp from the 5.7L V8 Hemi engine

RAM 5.7L HEMI TC Vane angles vs KJ TC

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