Tranny bit the dust

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 10:29 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

The oil filter return also has a bypass valve - it's specifically designed to allow oil to go around the clogged filter in order to keep the tranny from burning up. However, if debris is already in the sump, debris will also end up circulating throughout the entire system, including the valve body.

You should see the stuff that comes out an Allison B500 (OTR Bus transmission) in the first 5000 miles. Always dropped the pan and filters and changed them @ 5K or about end of the first month. Totally blocked by clutch fibers, metal shavings, casting sand, etc...some of the nastiest black stuff you could ever imagine. All breaks free from normal break-in, literally packs in around the filters blocking oil flow. Don't think it's a coincidence that this is happening just as the weather is getting warm.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 10:35 pm

I've still got both filters from changing them myself. The main filter didn't look too bad. At some point I'll cut the return filter open and see how it looks. I need a way to do that without introducing debris or it is kinda pointless.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon May 15, 2006 10:38 pm

I would think 210 wouldn't be that hot since the engine coolant is cooling the trans. fluid. 210 is pretty normal operating temps for an engine. Operating temps have been going up for years to reduce emissions. i think most vehicles have a 190/195 thermostat. The days of 180 degree thermostats are gone unless you put one in yourself. I think when you chip a gasser that is one of the things you are required to do. Lower the engine temp so you can advance the timing without detonation. Still, in the end, cooler trans temps are desirable to a point.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

When I added the aux cooler to my 02, I dropped the tranny pan, changed both filters and cleaned the pan, before flushing 16 quarts of fluid through it. The magnet had a little very fine metallic fuzz on it, the main sump filter was coated on the metal cover with some fine metallic fuzz, but the cooler return filter was clean. I figure the main sump filter catches most of the normal wear debris first. When I cleaned the pan bottom, there was some fine clutch material - enough to feel slighty gritty. This was at 24K miles. The recommended fluid change interval was 100K miles.

Parky · **Posted:** Tue May 16, 2006 9:06 pm

Okay, I got my CRD back this afternoon. It definately shifts different with the TSB. The lower gears shifting is much more subtle, I don't hardly even notice it. 4th gear locks up at 50mph and 5th locks in at 60. I will see how I like that in traffice tomorrow.

Here is what they replaced

56044737-AI Module TR 8035028
68000336-AA CONV PKG 21046005
5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009
5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005
82300234 SEALER RT 1081003
4799662 FILTER TR 99000000
5013470-AC 4X4 FILTE 21170002

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue May 16, 2006 9:57 pm

I would think these expensive failures will have DC leaning on the dealers to get the TSBs done. DC must not pay very well on TSBs or the dealers would be more eager to do them. I don't know if I want it the reflash done now. Hopefully some more information about the replacement torque converter will come out. I don't think I want a software bandaid to help the torque converter make it to 70,001 miles. I experienced the bucking one time back before I changed the filters, but not since. If it starts it again I think I'll let 'er buck until she's done.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue May 16, 2006 9:58 pm

Parky wrote:

Okay, I got my CRD back this afternoon. It definately shifts different with the TSB. The lower gears shifting is much more subtle, I don't hardly even notice it. 4th gear locks up at 50mph and 5th locks in at 60. I will see how I like that in traffice tomorrow.

Here is what they replaced

56044737-AI Module TR 8035028
68000336-AA CONV PKG 21046005
5073004-AD PUMP TRAN 21129009
5183561-AA COOLERSER 24027005
82300234 SEALER RT 1081003
4799662 FILTER TR 99000000
5013470-AC 4X4 FILTE 21170002

You know mine locks up at 50 mph, but I thought it was TC locking up. I had not counted the shifts. I guess I need to get out the ScanGage one of these nights and check out things.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue May 16, 2006 10:03 pm

oldnavy wrote:

You know mine locks up at 50 mph, but I thought it was TC locking up. I had not counted the shifts. I guess I need to get out the ScanGage one of these nights and check out things.

Does your "ScanGage" actually tell you what gear you're in and status of lockup?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 7:40 am

Goglio704 wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

You know mine locks up at 50 mph, but I thought it was TC locking up. I had not counted the shifts. I guess I need to get out the ScanGage one of these nights and check out things.

Does your "ScanGage" actually tell you what gear you're in and status of lockup?

If it's like the ProLink set-up for an Allison, it will tell you everything (gears, shaft speeds, temps, pressures, etc...). If it's a parameter used by the computer to run the trans, it will be there. Really wish now I hadn't sold my ProLink.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 8:24 am

Goglio704 wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

You know mine locks up at 50 mph, but I thought it was TC locking up. I had not counted the shifts. I guess I need to get out the ScanGage one of these nights and check out things.

Does your "ScanGage" actually tell you what gear you're in and status of lockup?

No it doesn't, mine is an earlier version and I need to send it back to be updated. Just never got around to doing that. It will read the exact RPM and you can easy see the shift point that way.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu May 18, 2006 8:23 pm

Hey Ranger1, any updates? Hope you haven't commited dealercide or something.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Supposed to pick it up tomorrow. Will know more then.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Well, it's back. Looking at the paperwork, all that was done was to replace the torque converter, flush out the metal debris, unclog the tranny cooler, replace the filters and add new fluid. When I brought up the TSB out for this issue, they said it didn't need it. Drove it home today, and it ran ok, but started the shudder again at 65 mph. Also had some grinding when shifting from park to reverse, but it stopped and has not come back.

Quite a change of story from their first assessment. Can't say I'm happy with this.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2006 6:48 pm

Did you by chance check the tranny fluid to make sure they filled it with proper amount? Drive it about 10 miles then park on level ground and check it with tranny in park. When they replaced the filter on mine they didn't get the tranny full, they were about 3.5 qts low.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Yes, its the first thing I checked when I drove back to work. The level is correct. I did have one troubling issue when I pulled into the driveway, which was when moving from park to reverse, a grinding sound appeared. It has since stopped. I suspect that the tech was unable to get all of the metal debris out of the system, debris that he saw in the pan. Its also possible that some clutches in the transmission gear were damaged. I'm sure this isn't over yet.

Guest · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2006 8:39 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Well, it's back. Looking at the paperwork, all that was done was to replace the torque converter, flush out the metal debris, unclog the tranny cooler, replace the filters and add new fluid. When I brought up the TSB out for this issue, they said it didn't need it. Drove it home today, and it ran ok, but started the shudder again at 65 mph. Also had some grinding when shifting from park to reverse, but it stopped and has not come back.

Quite a change of story from their first assessment. Can't say I'm happy with this.

Well, I've been in Washington DC this week on business without internet access, but now I read this and I'm thinking no internet for a week was a good thing. So, new TQ and still shuddering. Hmmmmmmm.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

These are the part numbers they replaced:

68000336-AA Conv PKG 21046005 Torque Converter
4799662 Filter TR 990000000
5013470-AC Filter 21170002

9 quarts ATF +4

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2006 10:53 pm

Interesting, got and e-mail from DC today. A Customer Satisfaction Survey. This could be fun. Let me see, where should I begin?

Tranny bit the dust

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