So F37 was issued after F31. Had F31 a few hundred miles ago after the "no start" situation and it has smoothed out the tranny but I have noticed a small loss in acceleration off the line and a change in shift points. Pushing the "OD" lockout fixes all this when that "short burst" is needed but probably not good for the transmission if used liberally.

I just had mine in for its free oil change (hey at the price of synthetic worth the 60 mile RT drive) and they checked the recalls, no new recalls (mine is a 2006 not sure of the build date).

Unrelated but I noticed a drop off in power the last two weeks, pulled my air filter and it was a mess after 6k. New air filter, power back.

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06 CRD "Smogger" Dark Khaki, Sport, 22C, tow package, hitch, 6 disc and slightly addictive SIRIUS sat radio.
82 CJ-8 04 Light Khaki, rebuilt 4.0L w/FI on the stand and ready to go in.

Heh, my service manager didn't believe me that CRD's were blowing TC's. Bet he does now. Asshat.

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Mine: 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD-the only color-BLACK!
-Tow package, 6CD in-dash
-Cobra CB w/glass mount
-Mopar Slush mats
-Cooper Discoverer ATR 245/70R16 on stock rims
Hers: 2004 Dodge Durango Limited 4.7 4x4-Molten Lava (She thinks it's purple!)

That would probably be the ultimate solution if DC really wanted to put this problem to rest, garner some major brownie points with their customers, and create a diesel customer base - offer to replace the 545RFE with the W5A580 as an option. They could take the 545's removed from the CRD's, refurbish them, and reuse them in gassers more suited to that tranny. That, or offer to convert them to 6 speed manual.

But last I checked, pigs still hadn't grown wings.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Your on to a good point. What is offensive is that we don't have choices presented to us by DCX.

There are some owners who wouldn't give a darn about the implications of reducing torque with the application of F37, so give them the option to undergo F37.

There are some that purchased the vehicle to tow or offroad with and need as much torque as the VM R428 can muster, so replace whatever appropriate parts TC, Pump, Clutch pack and re-instate the original programming in the ECM and TCM.

Totally replace the 545rfe with thw w5a580

My personal favorite that will never see the light of day is already being done for export models. Give me a manual transmission. If the clutch burns out due to the high torque of the VM R428 I'll pay for it down the road with my money and a smile on my face!

DCX don't paint this situation with a broad brush stroke. Offer alternative solutions and you'll have loyal customers to the brand!

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2005 Black CRD Limited w/105,000 miles
Mann Provent 200, Airbox Mod, ORM Mod
New 545RFE, TC & Redesigned pump @ 25,020 miles
New EGR Flow Control Valve @ 25,020 miles
New Transfer Case input/output seals @ 32,787 miles
SEGR Kit @ 52,000 miles
SunCoast TC and Transgo Shift Kit @ 52,000 miles

I would mess my shorts if they offered a factory kit to convert the American CRD to a 6-speed. if was a recall option I would not know what to do, that would be beyond my all my expectations. then again, I wonder what percentage of CRD owners would have a 6-speed installed to finally cure the AT problems, 25%, 30% maybe. they would still need to make a solution for those who still want the AT.

Can you say W5A580??? I would kill for that tranny in the CRD.

I actually thought that was the tranny when I first looked at our CRD, almost backed of the deal when I found out it was a Dodge transmission.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

I checked at the Jeep website, looked at the specs for the '07 gasser GC's. The W5A580 is ONLY available with the 3.7 V6. With the 4.7 and Hemi V8, you get the 545RFE standard, and the 545 is an optional "upgrade" to replace the W5A580 on the V6.

From the looks of things, DC and Jeep consider the 545 to be a better tranny and capable of handling more power than the W5A580.

If I were placing a bet, I'd still lay better than even money that DC will try sticking the same 545RFE behind the MB V6 CRD come January.

I've worked for Freightliner and DC for over 9 years, and there are times when Murphy could learn a thing or two from these guys.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

After the lame F31 flash and retarding the torque, I've stopped trusting their solutions. Especially when they openly admit they are going to retard the torque. Might as well have a 4 banger that runs on cheaper fuel.
How can anyone rightfully accept that they are going to dial back your engine performance as a fix when you purchased a vehicle with a specific powerplant for said performance? Combine with the additional fuel cost (acceptable when you factor in the engine performance originally expected), and you realized that they are stealing your money by substituting lower performance in place of proper parts.

_________________
2006 CRD Sport

The one other main question I have about the F37 recall, other than whether or not it turns this beast into a gutless wonder, is what does it do to fuel economy?

Depending on just how much of a reduction in power/torque and change in driving characteristics we're talking about, I MIGHT be willing to live with the changes, for use as a daily driver, provided that fuel economy stays the same or improves slightly, and the recall lives up to it's billing in improving tranny reliability.

But if fuel economy goes down the tubes, I have to call ahead and put in a reservation to pull out into traffic, floor the beast to get it up a hill, and still have to put up with EGR/CCV/other problems - forget it, this beast is history.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

That is strange isn't it, the SRT8 GC has the W5A tranny if I remember correctly. I know in the LX series cars the W5A is in 3.5L V6, and all V8's, including the STR8 cars. I bet it is more about $$$ and availability of the MB tranny.

Seems I remember reading the GC's that go to Europe get the W5A transmssion.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Spot on. For the last 3 years, Freightliner and DC have been downright anal about reducing parts costs, aiming for as much commonality as possible under the hood. If they plan on selling a bunch of GC CRD's, they're going to use the cheapest/most available tranny they can get away with to keep costs down.

It's gotten to the point at work that if they screw up on a truck and put the wrong equipment on it, depending on what it is and how much it's going to cost in rework, and who the customer is, their first action is to call up the customer and ask them if they're willing to accept their $150,000 truck with a different configuration than what they ordered, in most cases just to save a few hundred bucks in parts and overtime. If it's a large customer such as JB Hunt, Penske, Schneider, etc, they just go ahead and fix the truck - they know they'd get their head bitten off if they even suggested it to these guys, and stand a good chance of losing orders for several thousand trucks in the future. But if it's a small fleet or private operator that only orders a handful of trucks every 2 or 3 years....

That's why I have the strong suspicion that the new TC they're putting in under this recall is, at best, the heaviest duty TC they have available off the shelf that will work, such as for a Hemi Ram 1500. And at worst, they're simply replacing used parts with the same new parts. And then reprogramming the torque/rpm curve of the engine so that it mimicks a V6 or V8 gas engine. All just to get the things to hold together until they're past warranty.

Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong on this. But given the economics of it, and what experience I've had dealing with DC for the last 9 years, to me it just flies against the grain in too many ways to accept at face value that they've went to the time and expense of designing and producing a new TC for a limited run vehicle that's already out of production, when they can simply cover their corporate assets by using off the shelf parts and detuning the engine.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Frankly, I am not convinced that this is a bad tranny. It is just like everything else on this thing-- really good stuff made crappy by a few cheap parts, cludgy software, incomplete testing, and incompetant service. While the MB tranny may not suffer from the first three-- the fourth one remains. Ask yourself if you want Zeeke down at your dealer trying to retrofit that tranny onto your CRD in the minimum amount of time (because DC won't pay the dealer enough for the warranty work). I could imagine that swap out would be extensive-- tranny, computer flash with custom (read buggy) new software, new custom wiring harness (maybe), drive shafts (if tranny is a different size), and that is if the tranny just bolts up to the chasis and the flywheel. I don't think it will ever happen.

Frankly, if they would just leave the power alone and give me some money toward a built TQ, a shift kit, install it for me and give me a TCM flash with autostick ability (so I can shift into 4th instead of OD button going straight to 3rd) I would be ecstatic.

The manual tranny I might have some hope for. I have always liked manuals, but after driving this thing off road-- it it much easier than fighting with a stick. Also, the torque multiplication factor of a custom stator is very attractive for off road-- so I would not mind keeping the auto. But between F37 and a manual, I would take the manual conversion.

I had planned on one day getting the TQ, but probably at the same time I chipped it and after the warranty was over. I can't see the benefit of having to buy it now, and buy some cludgy chip just to get back the power they sold me to begin with.

To keep same TC all that would be required is to reprogram shift lock up and engine throttle responce at shift points. I don't think if done properly it would have any effect on tow ability, just the sudden power peak power hits at shift points and heavy throttle takeoffs.

My wife has learned to use 1/2 throttle to get the CRD moving then as RPM picks up she knows to had more throttle if needed, had to do it with the VW TDI's and now the CRD.

I must admit I speak as one who took care of the filter problem before it could damage the transmission and had no further problem but the poor quality shift at 35 mph, which was cleared up by a reflash (F31??) and we have not had any further tranny shift problem. Also we have never towed anything with the CRD, and probably never will, so the tranny will most likey serve us well for many years.

However I must say that some here have had tranny probelms because dealer refused to do the TSB's or did not not know how to do them. Some I know have help create their on problems with chips or WOT burst too often or some combo of these problems.

My wife wanted an SUV so we bought the CRD because it would be cheaper to drive that a gasser version, and is big time cheaper the the several people we know with gasser Libertys by 30% to as much as 40% cheaper. Now the little woman wants something bigger, quiter, and not as rough riding, it has nothibng to do with possible reliability issues. We will most likely give our daughter the Jeep and buy the wife a Charger AWD next summer.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

What's the latest 06 to get the f37? Mine was built Jan, 06 and it's not listed. Has the 53 mph studder but at only 4k miles has not crapped yet.

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

So I guess after all of this no one in their right might would put a tuner on it after the warranty is up?

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06 CRD "Smogger" Dark Khaki, Sport, 22C, tow package, hitch, 6 disc and slightly addictive SIRIUS sat radio.
82 CJ-8 04 Light Khaki, rebuilt 4.0L w/FI on the stand and ready to go in.

Customer Satisfaction Notice?

After reading it - I'd say that in effect it's more of a Customer Dissatisfaction notice.

Last I recall I paid good money for a vehicle with the following specifications:

160 hp (120 kW) @ 3800 rpm
295 lb.-ft. (400 N•m) @ 1800 rpm

I think it's asking customers to swallow a lot to accept a vehicle rendered less capable to make up for engineering deficiencies and cheapness. In my opinion you are no longer getting what you paid for once DCX alters the vehicles basic specifications and it's overall driving/performance characteristics. To me this is unacceptable.

If DCX advertised the above specifications, sold many vehicles based on these specifications, and it was later discovered that the vehicle didn't meet those specifications (and never did) - I don't think it would be accepted. People would be suing for fraud and false advertising. The automotive media would be all over this. DCX credibility would be damaged. But with this notification, DCX is basically asking it's customers to forgive them their cheapness and to help them avoid this fallout.

I bought the diesel for a reason. If I wanted a vehicle with power, torque, and driving characteristics of a gas engine, then I would have bought one with a gas engine and saved myself the premium paid for the diesel.

I'm sure it's a loosing proposition for DCX to redesign a new torque converter that is satisfactory for this application - especially since there were so few vehicles manufactured. However, that's not the customer’s problem. DCX should have done due diligence with the original design. To ask the customer to now bare the cost of their failure (and allow Chrysler to avoid the full expense of dealing with their mistake), by accepting something less than what they paid for is just outrageous.

Perhaps there is an aftermarket torque converter that is more suitable for this application (I don't know - I've never looked into it). The only acceptable solution, in my opinion, is to replace the deficient parts with ones that will allow the vehicle to maintain the original specifications that were paid for by the customer.

Quite frankly folks - I think we all should be raising Holy Hell about this! I think we should be making DCX quite aware that we won't accept this and they should be making this right. And the only way that DCX can do that is to bite the bullet and fix it right. That's what a good company would do. If DCX won't stand by their products any better than this, without trying to screw their customers for their short comings and cheapness, well then they don't deserve anybody's business and their loss of market share is deserved.

As I see it, DCX is giving you two choices both of which are bad. Don't have the mod done and risk having the torque converter fail (and possibly damage the tranny), or have the vehicle modified into something less that what you paid for. The fact that the failure may occur after the vehicle goes out of warranty produces even more pressure to accept a raw deal - have the mod done and accept a vehicle that is less than what you bought.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. My vehicle is running fine. I'm not at all motivated to have it's torque curve and driving characteristics diminished.

I can tell you one thing - I'm putting DCX on Notice that I'm not a Satisfied Customer at the moment.

Perhaps a class action law suit is in order…

Let's use the Lower ball joint recall as a example of how they do things...They knew about the problem soon after the Liberties were introduced in 2002. They put on a bandaid heatshield and continued using the defective joints up into 2006. Any moron would have found better ball joints back in 2002. Now look at what it's costing them.
With that in mind what can we expect from them? More important, what can we do to get what we paid for? When I first readup on the TC problem I thouht "class action". How do we get started?

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Is there someone with testing resources who can evaluate the torque before and after the recall, so we understand what the "slight" reduction really is?

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Thanks,
Ken Jennings
2006 KJ Limited 4x4 CRD, Option Pkg G, Lt. Khaki, Built 1 Feb 2006
Tow Package for myself, EVIC TPM
Side Curtain Airbags for my daughter
http://www.kenjennings.cc/crd/dieselexp.html

We shouldn't have to do this. DCX should be forthright and forthcoming with this information - instead of being evasive and sneaky about it in the CS Notice. Unfortunately getting somebody to dyno the vehicle (before and after modifications) may be the only way that we get this information.

I wonder if DCX is sending this notice to the owners in the mail, or are they hoping that most won't take the time to find it on their website?

The more I read this notice, the more it looks like DCX is trying to snooker it's customers.

My guess is that DCX will use the same inadequate (junk?) torque converter as a replacement and try to get the customer to swallow new diminished specifications that are less than what the customer paid for. It's cheaper to use what they have on hand - the same old junk converter - and simply reduce the torque capabilities of the power train so that the converter can handle it. It would be more expensive to have to do a real recall and fix this problem right by replacing the converter with a new one that is adequate for this application. The question is - are customers going to let DCX snooker/screw them over like this? Are customers going to allow DCX to avoid the expense of having to do the right thing and fix this right?

In my mind this represents pretty shoddy business practices and I won't forget it the next time I go to buy a new vehicle.

Hopefully enough pressure can be brought to bare to force DCX to abandon this insult of a solution (the CS Notice), and come up with a real fix.

So ... are they replacing all affected CRD torque converters, along with the software flashes OR are they testing the torque converters and only replacing the ones that seem defective, besides the software flashes?

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'05 CRD, Midnight Blue. Every option. Nice ride, idles like a garbage truck