Hi Reflex.
Flash your lights and I can probably see you from here! I actually live high up on the side of South Tiger Mountain bordering the state forest and look directly down toward Renton Highlands. We have a 3/4 mile long drive that gains 700 feet in the last 1/2 mile of gravel so our KJs are required equipment. Last month's storm gave us 18" of snow up here before it turned into a giant slush-gusher....it was a good test for these things....especially on the trip down the hill

Here is an excellent statement from Dr. Dan's website concerning sourcing. http://www.fuelwerks.com/ Dr. Dan is a Seattle mechanic who was one of the early pioneers in biodiesel:

As we pioneer the abundant field of renewable energy, it is important to keep our larger goals in mind. At Dr. Dan’s we are committed to keeping biodiesel sustainable in the long term. For our customers, for our industry, and most importantly, for our environment, we take extra care in ensuring that our fuel is produced in the most sustainable way possible. This means using only domestic feedstock for our fuel and investing in carbon offsets for the small petroleum inputs needed to get the fuel from the field to your tank.
We envision and strive for a local economy that utilizes agricultural byproducts from here in the Northwest to sustainably produce quality fuel. Fuel that is locally grown, produced, and consumed can enrich our economy, help our environment, and improve our quality of life.
Unfortunately, this vision is being compromised by the marketing of fuel made from unsustainable sources such as foriegn palm oil. Transporting raw materials across the globe not only undermines the environmental benefits of biodiesel, but also discourages local farmers and industry leaders from developing a sustainable biofuels economy. We encourage all of our customers and friends to make your voices heard by demanding domestic fuel and working to create a sustainable future for biodiesel.

Another producer in Washington State who is very cognizant of the sourcing and production issues is Central Washington Biodiesel in Ellensburg. http://www.cwbiodiesel.com/ They make relatively small batches right now but are gearing up for major production. One of the co-founders is a good friend of my sister so I a had the chance to visit their facility that is under construction: Very impressive indeed. One of their marketing strategies is to position themselves as a regional producer using sustainable, regionally grown feedstocks. They are also designing and building portable fueling stations to give to gas stations. By being portable, they can simply park them off to the side of the building and thus eliminate the risk for a station manager who would otherwise have to change fuels in their huge underground tanks.

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

I'm up by Tiger Mountain fairly routinely for a client of mine, probably drive right past where you are.

I agree with much of what Dr. Dan is saying, he is correct that its ridiculous to be importing the sources from around the globe, the fuel expenditure there is far in excess of what the processed biomatter will ever produce(not to mention the environmental devestation that palm production is causing in Asia). That said, agriculture simply cannot solve the fuel issue, there is not enough land and it is itself very environmentally damaging for a multitude of reasons. That is why I support algae and other low impact solutions, but tend to stand against anyone who is endorsing crop-based approaches.

For those who look at this as a way to support farmers, I will point out that there is nothing stopping farmers from getting into the algae business. Much farm land lays fallow each year for crop rotations, an acre of soy produces about 42 gallons of diesel per year, but an acre of algae can produce about 33,000 gallons. Developing the equipment to allow them to multi-purpose the land(ie: during off seasons setting up algae production in closed systems on that land) would allow them a slice of the pie without federal subsidies or increased crop farming(which leads to water shortages and soil depletion).

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Yep!
I am very familiar with the algae farming concept. A while back I read an exhaustive financial analysis of algae farming based upon current technology and expected advancements and it does look very promising. One possibility is to use them as carbon scrubbers at coal fired power plants - basically using the concentrated CO2 to hyper-grow the algae.
There are even people experimenting with small-scale algae bio-reactors. I have seriously considered different ways I could be involved in such an effort on the business and manufacturing engineering side but as of now, I am having trouble enough starting 2 other businesses!
Here is a really quick Youtube snippet concerning algae: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxTICY_7KRQ&NR=1

Here is my brief on this topic:
* There will be no magic bullet energy source to replace oil. We will depend upon many different sources of energy including, hydro, wave energy, jet stream harvesting, tidal, wind, photovotaic, geothermal, Ocean-based Sterling engines, many different sources of biomass including algae-base biodiesel and genetically engineered microbial-based ethanol, greenhouse draft turbines, Hot fushion and others. The most dominant source for each household will depend upon where you live. We are lucky here in Washington because our primary source of electricity is already solar. (hydro) I am extremely annoyed at the strawman arguments including: Energy XYZ cannot possibly solve all of our energy needs. The implied message: Give up and drill for more oil or wait until some magical advancement in the distant future. The truth: Of COURSE energy source XYZ won't solve all our problems. However, it could be a part of the solution depending upon where you live, what your needs are and how it is implemented.
* Vehicles will utilize numerous different sources of fuel. Once batteries are capable of high energy densities, they will become the dominant energy storage units. They will be nothing like the starter battery in your car.
* Energy production should be kept as close to it's point of use as possible and be able to respond to variable demand quickly.
* Energy production needs to be decentralized and have more diverse ownership. We need the equivalent of mom & pop energy manufacturers. Economies of scale will be less of an issue as technologies advance.
* We need nothing less than a Manhattan Project for the development of alternative energy. There are simply no real excuses and we are out of time. We have the money, the scientists, the resources, the manufacturing capability, the facilities....we could lead the world in alternative energy production and technologies. There will not be a "better time" in the future for us to get this started. It is like waiting for some better time in the future to stop smoking, eat right and exercise.
* There are already many, many energy technologies out there. It is sad that so few have received attention or funding. Here is an interesting page showing many of them as well as energy storage and transmission technologies:http://www.logicalscience.com/technology/

* Part of the reason for my own involvement in biofuels is to encourage people to start thinking about and participating in change - and it has been remarkably effective within my sphere of influence. There needs to be a lot of debate on these subjects, just like we are having on this forum. The more I see people arguing about the pros and cons of various approaches and the more I read of people running their own backyard experiments, the more heartened I am that the subject is now in the forefront of the public consciousness. Ultimately, it is Joe Sixpack who will determine our success in all of this and Joe is easily frightened and does not like change. If this subject can be taken out of the land of the hippie on the commune farm and "normalized", Mr. Sixpack will be much more likely to help drive real change.

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Wow, great post. I agree with everything there, and that link was great. You are very correct that there is not a magic bullet solution and diversification is the best answer. My fiance is double majoring in Zoology(wildlife ecology focus) and Communications(Agriculture and Natural Resource focus) and your basically quoting her verbatum. I'm thinking next time she's on break we should get together with Biodieseljeep and some of the other Portland members, I think we could have a very interesting discussion.

Most people do not seem to realize that transportation usage of oil is only around 20% of total consumption, and that cars account for less than 10% of CO2 emissions(I believe concrete production is the largest producer if I remember right). Even if we solved transportation fuel, we'd still be reliant on the middle east, and we'd still be contributing to the greenhouse gas problem, we would only have offset growth by a few years. This is not to say we shouldn't try, every little bit helps, but the picture needs to be much larger than just what makes our cars move, and we have to be very wary of unintended consequences, such as the draining of the Ogallala Aquifer which threatens to leave the nation's bread basket a desert in just a few decades. There is such a thing as jumping from the frying pan into the fire, which is why I do not subscribe to the "Anything is better than what we are doing now" philosophy.

The closest we can come to a magic bullet would be fusion combined with efficiency gains in transmission and a massive advance in energy storage, but I think thats hoping for too much. The real world is never that simple.

Anyways, I am enjoying your posts, thanks for speaking up.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

huh That completely never occurred to me but considering the basic chemical reactions taking place, it's not surprising at all. Reflex, you have a link to the CO2 emissions breakdown stats? I'd be interested to read that.

_________________

2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

Yes, concrete manufacturing does indeed produce copious quantities of CO2 and is considered one of those "hidden" sources most people don't think about. Another massive source of very powerful greenhouse gases is methane that is locked up in huge frozen bogs and lakes in the Arctic. As they melt, they release the methane which is more powerful than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Of course the Armageddon of global warming would be the release of even relatively small percentages of the methane hydrate that remains chemically frozen at the bottom of the ocean. If that melts due to increase ocean temperature cockroaches would take their rightful place as king of the planet.

Concrete mfg is not the largest producer Co2. It is closer to 5%. The largest producer of CO2 is power&heat led by coal fired power plants. One of the reasons transportation is often the focus of the global warming debate is because it is one of the more complex issues to deal with - which is mostly due to issues regarding how energy is stored, distributed and used in propulsion. Electrical energy manufacturing is "easier" in the sense that it is stationary and the distribution of it (wires) is already in place.
Here are some more stats regarding concrete CO2:

According to the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCSD www.WBCSD.org), “Concrete is the most widely used material on earth apart from water, with nearly three tons used annually for each man, woman, and child.”
Carbon dioxide emissions from a cement plant are divided into two source categories: combustion and calcination. Combustion accounts for approximately 40% and calcination 60% of the total CO2 emissions from a cement manufacturing facility. The combustion-generated CO2 emissions are related to fuel use. The CO2 emissions due to calcination are formed when the raw materials (mostly limestone and clay) are heated to over 2500°F and CO2 is liberated from the decomposed limestone. As concrete ages, it carbonates and reabsorbs the CO2 released during calcination. Calcination is a necessary key to cement production. Therefore, the focus of reductions in CO2 emissions during cement manufacturing is on energy use.
In the US, cement manufacturing accounts for approximately 1.5 to 2% of CO2 emissions attributable to human activities. Worldwide, cement manufacturing accounts for approximately 5% of CO2 emissions. When all greenhouse gas emissions generated by human activities are considered, the cement industry is responsible for approximately 3% of global emissions. Using the same ratio of CO2 emissions to greenhouses gases in the U.S., 1% of the greenhouse gases are attributed to cement manufacturing.
China produces 37% of the world’s cement, followed by India with 6% and the U.S. with 5%. Most facilities in China rely on inefficient and outdated technologies; these plants contribute to 6 to 8% of the CO2 emissions in China. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, U.S. cement production accounts for only 0.33% of U.S. energy consumption. According to the WBCSD, over the decade of the 1990s, global cement production increased approximately 20% while unit-based cement industry CO2 emissions decreased by approximately 1.5%. Unit-based emissions vary across worldwide regions from 0.73 to 0.99 lb of CO2 per lb of cement.


The manufacture of cement produces about 0.9 pounds of CO2 for every pound of cement. Since cement is only a fraction of the constituents in concrete, manufacturing a cubic yard of concrete (about 3900 lbs) is responsible for emitting about 400 lbs of CO2.[1] The release of 400 lbs of CO2 is about equivalent to[2]:

The CO2 associated with using 16 gallons of gas in a vehicle
The CO2 associated with using a home computer for a year
The CO2 associated with using a microwave oven in a home for a year
The CO2 saved each year by replacing 9 light bulbs in an average house with compact fluorescent light bulbs
Other sources responsible for CO2 emissions include:

28,400 lbs for an average U.S. house in a year
26,500 lbs for two family vehicles in the U.S. in a year
880,000 lbs for a 747 passenger jet traveling from New York to London
The reason concrete is responsible for 1.5 to 2% of the U.S. anthropogentic CO2 (that is, due to humans) is due to the vast quantities of concrete used in the world around us.

During the life of a concrete structure, the concrete carbonates and absorbs the CO2 released by calcination during the cement manufacturing process. Once concrete has returned to fine particles, full carbonation occurs, and all the CO2 released by calcination is reabsorbed. A recent study indicates that in countries with the most favorable recycling practices, it is realistic to assume that approximately 86% of the concrete is carbonated after 100 years. During this time, the concrete will absorb approximately 57% of the CO2 emitted during the original calcination. About 50% of the CO2 is absorbed within a short time after concrete is crushed during recycling operations. (Nordic Innovation Centre Project 03018).

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

I can't find a chart like now after a few minutes of looking around. I'll try to find it after get home from work.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Hey guys,
Joined this at the tail but thought you might dig this[http://www.architecture2030.org/home.html]
This guy bad a great show on UCTV (University of California Television)
As for the bio fuel issues, one of the main problems of running on 1 tank
systems is blow by at the rings. The high lubricity of bio or wvo allows a
fair amount of fuel past the rings until the engine warms up and everything
seats. Running a 2 tank system helps by starting on #2. The oil that gets by
can polymerize in engine potentially causing bearing failure and other
unfortunate issues. I've heard that changing the oil more often
(like a gasser, at 3,000) should keep this from happening. Just what I've
heard anyway. I would really love to run my rig on bio but am taking my
time til I find out as many potential issues as possible.
Later[/url]

_________________
05 crd sport blk.
Frankenlift, Suncoast tc
98 Dodge 2500 12v
3in Carli lift, AFClive




In the pastures of the world I endlessly push aside the tall grass in search of the bull...

Hate to burst your bubble, but if there is ANY need for a two-tank system, or if your fuel has a substantially higher viscosity or much lower flow rate... Its not true "biodiesel" like the stuff that conforms to the ASTM spec.

True biodiesel must be made with a chemical process that strips the heavier glycerin off of the esters and locks the chains with methanol. Hence why it is known as Methylated Ester BioDiesel. The end product will have a specific gravity of approximately .86, which is only 1/100th heavier than dino diesel fuel at .85 specific gravity. It will flow and pour exactly the same as regular diesel fuel (or gasoline or any other non-viscous substance) and will ignite readily in a diesel engine WITHOUT pre-heating... As long as you are above the fuel's gel point.

The gel point varies based on the source oil for the biodiesel, but the same can be true of dino-diesel. Add a little kerosene to it, and the gel point of that changes too.

And if the "real" biodiesel like I describe here needed preheating to avoid getting past the rings of an engine... I think I would have been having compression problems in my Jetta after 30k miles of homebrew PURE biodiesel operation, and 60k miles after that of dino-d... Yet the compression was at the upper-end of the "new engine" scale when I sold the car. Nothing wrong with that engine!

You're right bro, the only issues would be with running filtered and dried wvo if
I understood the original information correctly. My apologies for confusing
the issue and thanks for the heads up on the real bio d.
You check out that 2030 site?
Later

_________________
05 crd sport blk.
Frankenlift, Suncoast tc
98 Dodge 2500 12v
3in Carli lift, AFClive




In the pastures of the world I endlessly push aside the tall grass in search of the bull...

Just wanted to post an observation that here in Portland, B20 (made with Sequential ASTM spec bio) was selling for 3.21 last week at the Jubitz truck stop, while dino diesel was going for $3.30+ everywhere else in town.

Wouldn't it be great if instead of the federal government borrowing another $150 to $200 billion dollars to give us a $600 check, they instead invested that money in tax incentives for construction of solar, wind, and biofuels facilities (not research, but actual construction)? Or even better, how about a high-speed rail line (like the ones that already exist in Europe and Japan) connecting cities from LA to Seattle? Imagine the massive spin-off economic benefits of such a project, instead of everyone buying a new Xbox or wide-screen TV manufactured in China.

Sorry, stepping off my soap box now.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

Agreed. But I also have a mighty fine soapbox.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

I agree totally.

_________________
2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Don't get me started on what might have been if we took the money spent on war and put it into alternative fuel/energy research over the last few years...

- Chris

_________________
Used to own:
2006 CRD Sport
Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit, Inmotion, ORM, EHM, Magnaflow SS exhaust, Fumoto valve, EVIC added, Hensley TruControl brake controller, Pirelli Scorpion ATR LR-D in spring/summer/fall, FIA winter front and Blizzaks in winter

LOL.

I reemphasize my soapbox comment.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

Yep, it certainly affords quite a nice view of what could have been.

- Chris

_________________
Used to own:
2006 CRD Sport
Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit, Inmotion, ORM, EHM, Magnaflow SS exhaust, Fumoto valve, EVIC added, Hensley TruControl brake controller, Pirelli Scorpion ATR LR-D in spring/summer/fall, FIA winter front and Blizzaks in winter

While I don't support subsidizing biofuels in their current form for reasons I've listed before, I do agree with your sentiment, the way out of every crisis in this country seems to be 'consume more crap'. This is in the long run clearly counterproductive.

And yes, the state of our rail system is ridiculous, rail should be a cheap and reasonable alternative to flying, and every major city should be linked. Truly high speed rail that could cross the country in a couple of days could be a luxury experience for a lower price than flying, and if you make it all electric with a nuclear power source you have a inexpensive, non-polluting source of long distance transportation...

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Not to get off topic, BUT

here in dallas one of the big probs is they are trying to push the rail system which for the most part works... however the news has been out in force asking people how long is it taking to park, and then leave the parking at the end of the day. one of our biggest rail stops takes 20 min to park and then its taking close to 45 min to leave the parking lot at the end of the day which in turn cxls out the whole point of riding the train!

_________________
05 CRD
3" Rough Country Lift
SAMCO SPORT Hoses
Magnaflow Muffler (12226)
CAT 2 Fuel Filter
Fumoto Drain Valve
EGR replaced at 50K
in service 8/31/04
Sold 7/21/10 125k miles
----------------------------------------------------------
Paved Roads, another form of unnecessary government spending...

Hi Relfex. I appreciated some of your posts towards the end of this thread about diversified energy production. Some of your blanket statements on biodiesel however should be clarified. Biodiesel is not a solvent of "everything" that it comes into contact with, anymore than petro-diesel is a solvent of "everything" that it comes into contact with (yes diesel is a powerful solvent contrary to some of your earlier statements). It is not a solvent of automotive metals at all, or perhaps you know of an alternate kind of chemistry unfamiliar to modern science. You are very pro-algae biodiesel(which is good) but bash vegetable biodiesel as being very bad for engines. perhaps you do not realize that they are both the same fuel, FAME. Yes most independent mechanics love it when fleets switch to biodiesel because they initially get a lot of business from plugged fuel filters and crap caught in injectors, but once all the nasty stuff is gone business drops off because the fact is that engines run better on a higher lubricity, higher cetane, lower soot fuel than Dino-juice. While vegetable biodiesel will likely never be able to meet the demands of transportation, it will never displace food crops. Even bio produced from soy which is one of the poorest gallons per acre oil crops, creates a high grade soy meal byproduct or perhaps the oil is the byproduct depending how you look at it. AT any rate, biodiesel should be encouraged as a positive step toward petroleum independence.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Diesel when it gets into your oil does not break it down like gasoline and biodiesel do. This is one reason oil changes in diesel engines are 2-4x less frequent than they are on gasoline vehicles. This is my point, it increases wear via multiple methods, a major one being that if you adhere to oil changes on a 'normal' diesel schedule you will have problems that will not happen on regular dino diesel.


I don't claim otherwise, I am aware that algae has the same properties and will also degrade the lifespan of an engine. But my entire argument is not based on engine life, and if a solution can solve the energy independence issue, a somewhat shorter lifespan would be perfectly acceptable to me.


It already has displaced food crops. Even worse, its displacing natural areas, and destroying rainforest. Deforestation in southeast asia to support palm oil based BD has approached 80% in some countries according to National Geographic, which made a cover story out of the issue last year. Corn prices(due to ethanol, not BD) have skyrocketed, people in Haiti have been reduced to eating dirt as a result(yes, dirt from the ground). This is the human toll of crop based biofuels. The UN has called biofuels a crime against humanity, and they are correct, as we are unwilling to conserve and give up our luxury in the first world in order to save the lives of those less fortunate.

And before any of the right wingers get too upset, I'm not some bleeding heart hippy, I just hate to see us jump from the frying pan into the fire and so casually kill thousands just so we can drive our SUV's around with impunity.

The real solutions are simple:

1) As UFO said in another thread, CONSERVE!
2) Pour money into research for next generation renewable energy sources without simply dismissing critics(like myself) who often see the long term issues long before the proponants do.
3) Food should go to the hungry, not into cars.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD