International Buys Jeep

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:31 pm

dtempler wrote:

So did we ever figure out if international is buying Jeep

Yes.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:12 pm

... Yes, we figured it out, or Yes, they actually ARE buying Jeep?

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:09 pm

geordi wrote:

... Yes, we figured it out, or Yes, they actually ARE buying Jeep?

Seems like everyone thinks it's a joke....

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:53 pm

Yea, thats what I thought too, but just wanted to be sure.

Too bad, it would be nice for a REAL truck company to own the brand instead of what DCX is doing to it.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:28 pm

geordi wrote:

We are talking about MAINTENANCE, not operating costs. Maintenance implies a schedule of replacement. I wouldn't consider a blown turbo or a blown transmission as a "maintenance" item, that is a repair. Would you do anything with a turbo that was working? Doubtful.

If you are working on diesels, which ones? It's impossible to compare apples to apples if you are working on big class 8 trucks. As you correctly said, there aren't any gas versions that big.

Side by side in equivalent usage, I can't see how the diesel could be more expensive unless the labor is where the difference is. Diesels have always run longer intervals, which equates to less cost over a similar timeframe. It's also incorrect to compare maintenance costs over the "expected lifespan" of the engine, b/c a diesel can easily do 5 times the life of a gasser. Of course the "lifespan costs" will be higher.

I'm talking about operating cost,which includes fuel,routine maintenance,and any repairs(paid or warrenty included),and ONLY for a gas KJ and a CRD,not comparing to a tdi which is a overpriced generator.Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:36 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

geordi wrote:

We are talking about MAINTENANCE, not operating costs. Maintenance implies a schedule of replacement. I wouldn't consider a blown turbo or a blown transmission as a "maintenance" item, that is a repair. Would you do anything with a turbo that was working? Doubtful.

If you are working on diesels, which ones? It's impossible to compare apples to apples if you are working on big class 8 trucks. As you correctly said, there aren't any gas versions that big.

Side by side in equivalent usage, I can't see how the diesel could be more expensive unless the labor is where the difference is. Diesels have always run longer intervals, which equates to less cost over a similar timeframe. It's also incorrect to compare maintenance costs over the "expected lifespan" of the engine, b/c a diesel can easily do 5 times the life of a gasser. Of course the "lifespan costs" will be higher.

I'm talking about operating cost,which includes fuel,routine maintenance,and any repairs(paid or warrenty included),and ONLY for a gas KJ and a CRD,not comparing to a tdi which is a overpriced generator.Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

Magnesium Citrate :lol:

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:55 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

Wow, you really have no idea do you?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:00 pm

UFO wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

Wow, you really have no idea do you?

Yes I do and 95% of the topics in this section are pointing in my direction :wink:

.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:06 pm

Enjoy: http://www.google.com/search?q=Navistar ... US249US249

http://www.offroaders.com/news/International-Jeep.htm

tjkj2002 Do you really need some Magnesium Citrate

Stick to your gasser and breaking up rocks with you big bad bumpers.

BTW: My CRD has an off road adventure every trip to the airport driving Illinois roads, must be why they Impeached our former Governor. Plus, not too many CRVs can make into and out of the local Job Sites I get to drive to.

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:07 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

UFO wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

Wow, you really have no idea do you?

Yes I do and 95% of the topics in this section are pointing in my direction :wink:

.

No, sorry. So far everything points to the CRD and most other diesels being quite reliable; all I hear from you is extreme prejudice towards diesels, all opinion and no facts to support such thinking.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:18 pm

UFO wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

UFO wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Don't see any difference between a small diesel vehicle that never sees what diesel is ment for lasting any longer then a gas engine counterpart.I have seen many WJ/WK's with well over 250,000miles with a 4.7 which is the identical platform as the 3.7 in the KJ,there are many KJ's with close to/or over 200,000miles also with a 3.7.I have yet to see a CRD with much more then 100,000miles yet,and the fact they've needed major work just to run makes you just want to puke.Then again I haven't heard/seen of any 2.8's with more then 200,000miles without being rebuilt at least once already.

Wow, you really have no idea do you?

Yes I do and 95% of the topics in this section are pointing in my direction :wink:

.

No, sorry. So far everything points to the CRD and most other diesels being quite reliable; all I hear from you is extreme prejudice towards diesels, all opinion and no facts to support such thinking.

I have no dislike of diesels,want a nice F450 to pull my KJ to the trails with as soon as the need arises and I grew up with diesels,though nothing less then a 3/4ton rating.Ford SD's,only with the 7.3 PS, and Dodge CTD's,only 5.9's, are good trucks and I would love to own one when I need one.Smaller vehicles with diesels,CRD the biggest,in this section has more problems then my KJ has ever had and I'm rough on my Jeep.At least my tranny doesn't go bang,keeps going into limp mode,have to bypass the EGR,add additives to run right from crappy fuel,and the list goes on and on.You all just need to open your eyes and realize that small diesel's are not god,you experience just as many if not more problems then a comparable gas engine vehicle.Leave the diesels to pulling 15,000lbs+ like they are ment to be used for.I've driven several CRD's and to say the least they are less then expected by alot,where is the power?A KJ with the 2.4 gas engine has more get up and go then all the CRD's I've driven.Even driven many tdi's and they are,well lets say those engineers should be shot,man the problems they have :roll:

,we no longer will service them and send them directly to the dealership due to liability reasons from piss poor engineering and faulty OEM parts that take forever to get and don't fit or are bad to begin with.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:12 am

tjkj2002
For someone who dislikes CRD's and does not own one why do you spend so much time here telling us they are no good and talking them down :shock:

We also know you think nv242 transfer cases are junk and only fools would buy them but as you know US crd's came with them so get off your soap box :lol:

If you don't have anything worth while to add why grace us with your "words of wizdom" :?:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:47 am

Joe Romas wrote:

tjkj2002
For someone who dislikes CRD's and does not own one why do you spend so much time here telling us they are no good and talking them down :shock:

We also know you think nv242 transfer cases are junk and only fools would buy them but as you know US crd's came with them so get off your soap box :lol:

If you don't have anything worth while to add why grace us with your "words of wizdom" :?:

To the point and not too subtle.

clackclack · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:08 am

Roughly 49% of all cars sold in Europe are diesel... but what do 731 million people know :roll:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:51 am

don't think he sees it as a diesel thing, i think he sees it as a crd diesel thing

not all diesels are the same just like all gassers arent
had a late 70s early 80s vw rabbit pickup for a few months, got like 50mpg and would roast the tires through 3rd gear but it was all you could do to get it to go over 60mph

to each their own, everyones entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong or right someone else thinks it is in the end it doesn't matter we all drive jeeps that we love for the same and different reasons, we all love to do stuff with our jeep, drive it, wheel it, mod it

and we all wanna help when somethins broke, and alot of us don't drive what we're specifically used to workin on (ie: diesel mechanics driving gassers)

we used to have a method to solvin stuff like this, it was called a truck pull, hook bumper to bumper with 2 heavy tow straps or tank chain and have a pull off, whoever pulled the other past the either empty 6 pack carton bought the next 12 pack

so how about i just buy the 12 pack and we call it a day cause just about all of ya got my arse beat on the dirt and the pavement

chadhargis · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:21 am

I venture to guess he's not driven MY CRD.

I have used an accelerometer/GPS device and measured my CRD at 7.8 seconds from 0-60. Go get your 2.4L 4-banger gasser, or bring your jacked up 3.7L to the drag strip and we'll see how they stack up against my CRD. I mean...after all, the CRD has no power, and it's slow, so let's make a nice wager on it. We can go double or nothing and run the race with a 2000lb trailer attached.

I've seen 30.1mpg on the highway.

I've seen 25mpg towing a 2000lb load (even over some mountains). The V6 Ford Explorer gasser I was traveling with returned 11mpg on the same trip.

I get 21mpg in heavy stop and go city traffic. My old Explorer got 14mpg. My PT Cruiser 5-speed...19mpg.

I've had NO engine issues with my CRD. Now, the crappy transmission (same one as the gasser Hemi pickup) is an absolute POS. It can't take the torque of the diesel. The gasser V-8 doesn't appear to be strong enough to give it any problems.

The 2.8L VM Motori diesel is used in marine and industrial applications. The 3.7 KJ motor is used in what else? Oh yeah. NOTHING. Would you trust your backup power, or your boat 200 miles off shore to a Chrysler 3.7L gasser. I wouldn't! Neither does anyone else.

The engine "problems" you see on this forum aren't really problems so much as they are preventive maintenance. I'm willing to bet the CRD would run hundreds of thousands of miles if you did nothing to it but change the oil regularly. You might have an EGR issue (which is common on all diesels that have them, not just the CRD), but gassers have EGRs too. Diesel owners tend to be enthusiasts. The want peak performance from their engines. I bet if you went to any sports car oriented forum, you'd find the same discussions going on. You also see a LOT of people here abusing the CRD and using it for things it was never designed for, like towing travel trailers and such. Chrysler designed the Liberty for Suzi Soccer Mom to tote the kids around in, not to pull travel trailers....yet, the CRD engine keeps on chugging, despite what people do to it.

A friend of mine has an F150 V8 pickup, and he used my Jeep to tow his trailer while his truck was getting some work done. He commented how much better the diesel pulled than his gasser. A 4.6L V8 outpulled by a 2.8L 4 cylinder. Yeah....the CRD small diesel is a real POS all right. I guess I should put it up for sale and go by a gasser. I'm convinced. :roll:

litton · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:11 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

tjkj2002
For someone who dislikes CRD's and does not own one why do you spend so much time here telling us they are no good and talking them down :shock:

We also know you think nv242 transfer cases are junk and only fools would buy them but as you know US crd's came with them so get off your soap box :lol:

If you don't have anything worth while to add why grace us with your "words of wizdom" :?:

I like that. Never could figure why someone with no interest in the forum spends so much time distorting information that is not pertainant to their interests. I saw that on the WK forums when I had my Grand. Folks would come on and tell us how bad they were and had never driven one, but, later some of the same doubters bought them and became converts. Especially the off-road crowd when they saw how well the Grand would really do with the IFS.

Some folks are a little wierd.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:39 pm

Well you all know you're vehicles intimately, outside perception is usually either slanted or incorrect when you're facing those with intimate knowledge. If i didnt have a renegade gasser, i'd think they had some pretty weird quality issues by reading the forum. But like the forum 'disclaimer' basically states to new viewers, you'll get an impression of the vehicles that is going to be wrong, because people who don't have problems aren't going to be making alot of post saying, Hey its runnin great no problems. A majority of the posts will be, wth, this isn't working right etc etc

for instance, the gear shifter indicator on the autos atleast with the 02-03 gassers seems to want to fall out of position, easily fixable, but from an outside view, it makes you want to say, ok are they really put together that badly? mine does it, sometimes it shifts out of position in a way that makes the friggin shifter refuse to move between gears and i have to move it back and forth and tap it to get the indicator in a spot where it doesn't hang. If tjkj had a crd he'd either have the same opinion of the crd, or have a similar opinion of the gassers but it doesnt matter

but relevently,

Quote:

CRD would run hundreds of thousands of miles

it's quite possible with the correct maintence and replacement of certain components as the miles rack up diesels can last millions of miles under the right conditions. I rebuilt the transmission on a isuzu box truck that had over 2.6 million frame miles, one engine overhaul at 1.5mil miles, 4 transmissions, roughly 15 clutches i dont remember exactly, 3 rear axle rebuilds and a **** ton of berrings. I hated that truck, the company that operated it basically didn't replace tires except on the front unless the tire blew. I was putting the drive shaft back in after a clutch job and one of the rear tires exploded while i was under it. Took a good 2 weeks for the asphalt and rocks to work their way out of my face and 11 stitches in my temple where i hit my head.

Thats one type of service life a gasser will never have, no argument there

edit: was the same truck i broke my wrist keeping from blowing up when the turbo was feeding oil causing a run away

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:59 pm

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

Well you all know you're vehicles intimately, outside perception is usually either slanted or incorrect when you're facing those with intimate knowledge. If i didnt have a renegade gasser, i'd think they had some pretty weird quality issues by reading the forum. But like the forum 'disclaimer' basically states to new viewers, you'll get an impression of the vehicles that is going to be wrong, because people who don't have problems aren't going to be making alot of post saying, Hey its runnin great no problems. A majority of the posts will be, wth, this isn't working right etc etc

for instance, the gear shifter indicator on the autos atleast with the 02-03 gassers seems to want to fall out of position, easily fixable, but from an outside view, it makes you want to say, ok are they really put together that badly? mine does it, sometimes it shifts out of position in a way that makes the friggin shifter refuse to move between gears and i have to move it back and forth and tap it to get the indicator in a spot where it doesn't hang. If tjkj had a crd he'd either have the same opinion of the crd, or have a similar opinion of the gassers but it doesnt matter

but relevently,

Quote:

CRD would run hundreds of thousands of miles

it's quite possible with the correct maintence and replacement of certain components as the miles rack up diesels can last millions of miles under the right conditions. I rebuilt the transmission on a isuzu box truck that had over 2.6 million frame miles, one engine overhaul at 1.5mil miles, 4 transmissions, roughly 15 clutches i dont remember exactly, 3 rear axle rebuilds and a **** ton of berrings. I hated that truck, the company that operated it basically didn't replace tires except on the front unless the tire blew. I was putting the drive shaft back in after a clutch job and one of the rear tires exploded while i was under it. Took a good 2 weeks for the asphalt and rocks to work their way out of my face and 11 stitches in my temple where i hit my head.

Thats one type of service life a gasser will never have, no argument there

edit: was the same truck i broke my wrist keeping from blowing up when the turbo was feeding oil causing a run away

Actually I'm trying to drive home the point that the CRD is not god to which most in this certain section believe it is.There CRD's can not tow more then mine,mine is less expensive to operate,and mine will last just as long(if not longer) with no major rebuilds due to the nature of the small diesel engine market in the US.

Quote:

clackclack

Roughly 49% of all cars sold in Europe are diesel... but what do 731 million people know Rolling Eyes

Not much since I live in the USA where the rules are different.

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:21 pm

Sure wished this would stay on topic!

Terry

International Buys Jeep

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