International Buys Jeep

chadhargis · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:17 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

I'm trying to drive home the point that the CRD is not god to which most in this certain section believe it is.There CRD's can not tow more then mine,mine is less expensive to operate,and mine will last just as long(if not longer) with no major rebuilds due to the nature of the small diesel engine market in the US.

You're 3.7 will tow as much? Really?? You sure about that?

I know what the chassis is rated to tow, but do you honestly think that a 3.7L gasser can tow/haul as well as a diesel even HALF it's displacement?

I took some time to do a little research. I looked at boats, tractors, box trucks, ambulances, emergency generators, and pretty much every place where having a running engine was critical. I found a strange absence of gas engines.

There is absolutely no doubt that a diesel engine is superior to a gas engine in every way. The only place I'd argue a gas engine is better is in racing....that was until I remembered this little beauty:

Even with a weight penalty, it still managed to beat the best engineered gas engines in the world.

clackclack · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:13 pm

chadhargis wrote:

Even with a weight penalty, it still managed to beat the best engineered gas engines in the world.

... and the sound of that thing is insane. It sounds like it should be pulling out of a truck stop even while its blowing by the gassers. Audi does have some great drivers though, you have to give them some credit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MItqDFypDM&feature=PlayList&p=0312E6D31ADCAD44&playnext=1&index=16

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:50 pm

Quote:

You're 3.7 will tow as much? Really?? You sure about that?

I'm 100% sure,my trans will not blow apart either :wink:

.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:10 pm

The only absolute advantage diesel has - is a higher BTU content per gallon.

everything else is how well it's designed/manufactured to take advantage of that.

No question Jeep cut some corners on the CRD
however the biggest failure was lack of training/experience for the Maintenance techs

so on the gassers - you can find lots of good mechanics to troubleshoot and fix problems
for CRD's - LOST is really the only good information source -
but that gives a lopsided view because there's a higher percentage of people talking about problems -
and few about just driving - where most gassers just talk about lifts/tires/drive.

and as to the original topic - I stopped reading JP a long time ago -
I never felt they were worth the insults and I'm not impressed with their April fool's jokes.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:15 pm

Well, I won't hold my breath for any gasser big rigs, tractors, etc.

But if it's just a matter of how the engine is built, and there is no advantage for the diesel. I guess it's just a matter of time before we see a 20 liter gasser semi truck towing 60,000lbs getting fractions of a mile to the gallon.

:roll:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:09 am

There is an advantage in diesel - it's the energy content of the fuel.

Big gas engines never went over well for trucks (although there are a lot of 454 powered RV's out there)
they were however designed for other uses and have found their way onto wheels or boats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls_Royce_Merlin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_V-1710

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:48 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

The only absolute advantage diesel has - is a higher BTU content per gallon.

everything else is how well it's designed/manufactured to take advantage of that.

Not exactly. The diesel cycle is more thermally efficient as well. BTU content does not account for all of the mileage advantage, and certainly not for the torque advantage. And the higher torque allows operating the engine at lower RPM reducing wear. You get longer engine life because you have less rotations and lower heat load.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:41 pm

Torque advantage is why diesel are used in large applications - torque is primarily what gets a vehicle moving from a dead stop, and it takes a lot of torque to get 80,000 lbs of vehicle up and rolling.

This 2.8 L diesel has more torque, and at a significantly lower rpm, than the 4.7 L V8 in the '04 Dakota I had. As far as the 3.7 L V6, I'll wager it's not even close.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:28 pm

Ah! Some guys who get it.

An engine that can produce torque at a low RPM will be far superior to an engine producing the same torque (or perhaps more) at a high RPM in most situations.

For example.

I have two motorcycles. One V-Twin and one inline 4.

The twin is FAR easier to ride due to the way it makes power. Linear across the rev range. The inline four is peaky. You have to rev the piss out of it to get it to do much and keep rowing the gears to keep the RPMs in their happy place.

Both are fun to ride, and on the track, I ride the screaming inline 4. On the street, the lumbering V-Twin.

clackclack · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:54 pm

At the risk of getting back on topic..... this actually makes some sense. With the Ford relationship going away, and the money Ford had to pay Navistar to make it go way... Looking at Navistar performance and forecast... they are certainly looking for something to stay on task FY09-10. Jeep would certainly be "something". :wink:

InCommando · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:17 am

bhysjulien wrote:

Jeep Magazine is reporting in its April issue that International is going to the Jeep brand. All Jeeps will have diesel options (Mercedes 3.0) as well as Rubicon options. Liberties and Grands will go back to solid axles. The Liberty name is going to be dropped for the Cherokee badge worldwide. The Wrangler is going to get a Hemi option as well as a 4.5L Navistar/Allison transmission option. See the April issue of Jeep Magazine page 62 for any questions.

If this actually happens I see a Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon with the 4.5 in my future!

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:06 am

Ya knows.... if that was ever going to happen, it wouldn't be on no blessed page 62 :lol:

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:37 pm

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

Ya knows.... if that was ever going to happen, it wouldn't be on no blessed page 62 :lol:

You've got a point on that one.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I tried putting "jeep magazine" on google, but got too many choices to figure out which one has the article. Does anyone know which Jeep Magzine is the one with the alleged writing?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:38 pm

JP - the 'we hate Liberty's' magazine

http://forums.jpmagazine.com/70/7398182/speak-up/international-buys-jeep/index.html

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:37 pm

Driving to the range in My CRD Jeep which will soon be owned by Navistar will make my M1 and myself Very Happy

clackclack · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:13 am

warp2diesel wrote:

Driving to the range in My CRD Jeep which will soon be owned by Navistar will make my M1 and myself Very Happy

That is a rare rifle... I'd be afraid to take that one out of the case :shock:

...It does make the point that International has a history of manufacturing products that are more unlikely than Jeeps.

Navistar Mahindra Jeep.... "Good relations with the Wookies, I have." said Yoda

mackruss · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:58 am

Well you can also perhaps Tata your chance with a possible Tata Land Rover Jeep :lol:

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