Cowpie1 wrote:
No problem by me. One has to use what they feel comfortable with. I don't expect anyone to rush out and do what I am doing. I am probably wrong anyway. I just haven't seen enough difference in actual real world use in my vehicles to spend large sums of money for boutique synthetics. They do work, I am not questioning that. But do they work better in proportion to the increased cost? Not in anything I have tested them in. Oil weight can be an issue as can the additive package, but brand names don't impress me anymore. Especially since I have learned about the commercial sources of base oils and additive packages. In my case, I would rather buy a good performing oil that does not have layers of marketing, sponsorship of race cars, or T.V. ads during the Superbowl included in their pricing scheme. Oil sample results, reliability, and quality can be had in lessor name oils, especially regional suppliers that cater to commericial use. Even though they don't make claims of being the best thing in lubrication since the days of wagon trains, have paid OEM's for the priveledge of being recommended by them, paid for the right to claim to be the "offical oil of...", or pay for shelf space in the traditional sales outlets, they use the same base oils and additive packages as the "big" boys. Shell, for instance, does not make it's own oil base stocks directly. The do own a share of Motiva, which is the largest base oil stock producer in the world. Motiva supplies oil base stocks to wide variety of companies that then slap their own name on the bottle. Just like Infineum is the largest supplier of additive packages for the North American market. Most all oils out there get some or most or their stocks from these producers, blend it how they want, and slap a label on it. Even then, they have to stay within certain parameters to follow API standards for grade offering such as SF, CJ-4, etc. If they stray from the standards, they take legal risks.
When I tanked fuel, the same could be said for brand names. Conoco, Shell, Sinclair, Sunoco, whatever..... the local stations get ALL their fuel from the very same terminals. The terminal gets it's fuel from a variety of refineries. Maybe an additive included at the time of the fuel loading on the tanker, but it was the same fuel none the less. I would haul fuel to a variety of stations and business', but it all came from the same terminals.
But, by all means, buy what you feel comfortable with. I am not going to down anyone for using whatever brand. That is what I love about the free enterprise system.... a wide selection of products and brands from which to choose. But I am in a business that consumes a sizeable quantity of fuel and oil. I am not inclined to pay large sums for just a brand name and OEM's can't void warranty obligations if the end user chooses another brand. Cummins, for instance, only recommends Valvoline in their engines (only reason I can find for this is because Cummins has commercial interests with Ashland oil which markets Valvoline). I have never used Valvoline and have had a variety of warranty work done in numerous Cummins engines with nary an issue that I used another brand of oil. And these are engines that cost $25,000 to replace.
Very nice post.
I once worked for Ashland Oil as a co-op, and their headquarters were near my home town. Ashland Inc. used to be comprised of 4 units which they operated as independent companies: Ashland Oil, Ashland Chemical, Valvoline, and APAC (Ashland Paving and Construction). During the time I was there, Ashland Oil was spun into a joint venture with Marathon Oil, who now owns the whole thing outright. Ashland Oil used to be the primary supplier of base stock oil to Valvoline. I was actually part of a project in the pilot plant there whose aim was to supply them with other base stocks having various viscosities. I suspect they get the their bases off the open market now. As far as I know, the remaining structure of the company is still largely the same.
The whole composition of motor oils gets tossed around here a lot. The base stock is pretty much what governs the viscosity profile. The rate of change of the viscosity versus the temperature is less for synthetics. The base oil will do some lubrication, but its primary functions are the be a carrier for the additive package and act as a coolant for the internal parts. The additives do the rest. The additives play a major role in making the oil package a good lubricant. As pointed out before, other additives are present to protect against corrosion, some act as detergents, and others are acid/base buffers. Some of them are there to modify viscosity, and for these, they are likely intended to increase the viscosity. It's very difficult to add something in a small percentage and have it reduce the viscosity appreciably, but one can add things in small percentages that can induce a build in viscosity easily. None of the companies are going to tell us which particular additives and how much are used. It may...and I stress...may... be that when one buys a synthetic, they could be getting a better additives package, or "higher" levels of them which may or may not make an appreciable difference versus a conventional oil. The only argument I would ever make in debate of choosing a synthetic over a conventional oil is that the cold flow properties are better. Because they control the structures of the molecules to a decent degree...i.e. making them all branched hydrocarbons...the gel point of the oil is going to be a bit lower. In a conventional base stock, the individual molecules will vary relative to the source of the crude oil used in the feedstock. It's really a distillation cut, so there isn't any control over the actual molecules themselves, so there is a possibility of having a high proportion of linear molecules that will wax out or gel sooner than branched hydrocarbons. So the moral of the story, probably should be, if you live somewhere that gets really cold and you have a lot of cold-starts, then you probably should be using a 0W or 5W synthetic. If you live somewhere that's predominately warm or if you start-up and then drive for hours on end, then use whatever you want, synthetic...conventional...just something that is intended to be a motor oil.
I am curious about the Cummins-Valvoline partnership. It could be that Cummins works with Valvoline to make sure they have additives they like formulated into the oil. Or it could be a cross-promotion type of thing. In the end, it shouldn't matter since actually having oil, in the correct amount, is the most important thing.
Login
Register
FAQ
Search
