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 Post subject: Sealed Box
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:47 pm 
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Location: Lamesa, Texas
I have no idea what box it was. The dealer just said it had microchips and was sealed at the factory in a 'clean' room. They say they even talked to the factory in Italy where the engines are made. No one could come up with a solution until the mechanic in Lampassas, Tx. thought of the box. We've put close to 5,000 miles on it since, and no problems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:51 pm 
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Add me to the list. I just had my EGR Valve Replaced. My engine light came on. It was the problem. After that fix and an alignment, I'm back to getting average of 23-27 mpg on the highway with the lift and 30 inch tires. I will say though that the dealer ordered the valve early afternoon and had it about 0900 the next morning. THAT was refreshing.

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Last edited by longarm on Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Signs of a Failing EGR valve
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:20 am 
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Location: Lamesa, Texas
I took my CRD in for the second time in 8600 miles to have the EGR valve replaced. The service man said Chrysler was now telling them to clean the valves. They are still replacing mine since it's in warranty. If I find out any more I will forward the information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:41 am 
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Took mine in the day before yesterday for an oil change and to find out why I've lost about 3 miles per gallon. You guessed it....EGR VALVE. They've had to order one so hopefully it will be in soon. Also, that morning when I started her up to take her in, my coolant light stayed on for over 3 minutes. I mentioned that to the service manager and he jotted it down on his handy clipboard.

Since the EGR valve was on order, I picked up the vehicle later that evening to drive until the part comes in. I figured I'd just bite the bullet on the lousy mileage for a few more days.

Yesterday morning, the darn coolant light stayed on again, only going out after the vehicle was completely warmed up and the temp needle was at the half-way mark. It never went past the half-way point so I wasn't too worried about overheating.

I checked the coolant level yesterday evening and it was down to HALF of what it should be, so I took it straight to the dealer this morning. They pressure-tested the system and found that the coolant reservoir had SPLIT AT THE SEAMS! They think it was a result of the extra pressure caused by the failing EGR valve. They're having a new coolant reservoir over-nighted so hopefully it and the new EGR valve will arrive at the same time. I certainly don't want to drive it until they install the EGR valve for fear that the coolant reservoir will split again!

Has anyone else had this happen?

Peggy

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 Post subject: sounds bogus to me
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 am 
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Huh? How could the EGR affect the coolant system? It doesn't cause the enging to run hot, nor does it vent into the coolant system? Sounds bogus to me.

I'm only at 3,800 miles but no EGR or coolant issues here. Though I have a ProVent installed and after 500 miles don't have any noticeable goo in the Provent drain tube. I am running B50 so maybe that helps.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:05 pm 
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If you check, I'll bet that it's a cooled EGR system, ie, the valve and/or the recirced exhaust is cooled by the engine's cooling system, both to help the valve withstand high exhaust temps and lower cylinder intake temps. It does place an additional heat load on the system.

It is conceivable that there's some failure mode of the EGR valve/system that would put a higher additional heat load on the cooling system and/or engine. Not saying that those guys were right in this case, but i can see where it is possible.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:10 pm 
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No EGR problem as yet, but this rig sure put out the smoke. More then my 83 MB diesel or our VW's. But this CRD hauls butt, the 0 to 60 time is rather quick and easly faster to 60 then my Magnum I do believe. I have yet do a heads up run between them, I don't think the wife would go for that kind of thing being done by a 60 year old man.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:19 pm 
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Peggy,

So did you have any symptoms other than lost mpg? No engine lights? My mileage seems to be worse on this last tank of fuel (B50) but I've had a lot of mixed driving including pulling a trailer so I'm waiting for the next tank to see if it's really changed. Worries me if you didn't get a light.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:11 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
Chris,

No, I never received any lights. And the service manager didn't tell me if it threw any codes. The only things that made me worry were the drop in MPG's, harder than normal accelleration, and a bit of smoke from the tail pipe upon hard accelleration. I could only see the smoke through my rear view mirror at night with the car behind me's headlights illuminating it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't black smoke, just a mist so to speak. I've read some posts that state this might be "normal". It didn't seem normal to me, though.

I picked up my vehicle from the dealership last night, so of course, I won't be able to tell if my MPG's have improved after the EGR replacement until after the next few fill ups. They also had to replace the cracked coolant reservoir. Hopefully I'm good to go for awhile.

I sure wish bio-diesel was available here because I'd sure love to try it out!

Peggy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:13 am 
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Location: South Africa
Anyone got a photo or diagram indicating where the EGR value thingamagig sits?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:44 am 
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Watty wrote:
Anyone got a photo or diagram indicating where the EGR value thingamagig sits?
Look down under the oil dipstick. My CRD came in with a dipstick bent double from the factory, and the upper section of the EGR had to be removed to be able to remove old dipstick tube and replace with a new dipstick and dipstick tube of all things.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:13 pm 
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Hmm,
How much is an egr valve to buy? or be given might be useful to keep one as a spare guys this seems to be a real issue.
Has anyone contaced DC direct and put the idea of a retrofit Pro-vent to them?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:19 pm 
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Derek Mc wrote:
Hmm,
How much is an egr valve to buy? or be given might be useful to keep one as a spare guys this seems to be a real issue.
Has anyone contaced DC direct and put the idea of a retrofit Pro-vent to them?


I am sure D/C, VW and who ever else makes intercooled EGR equipped turbo diesels knows about the oil & soot in the intercooler problem, can't be missed. They figure it will not be a problem after ULSD, just the oil in the intercooler tubing. Heck after 10k miles a VW will drain about 3 to 4 oz from intercooler hose just in front of the intercooler coil and probably as much oil and soot has already gone through the intake into the engine. It's not really a big enough of a problem to warrant the mfg's to spend the extra $$$$ for a collector, like MB did on my '83 240D. It had a small oil air seperator mounted on the intake manifold and it worked just great, but a NA diesel didn't have the oil & air flow through the valve cover that new turbo diesels have but for some reason they didn't put it on the turbo powered cars.

The only time a EGR really will cause a drivability problem is if it fails in the open position. On VW's & MB people would just block/disconnect the vacuum for the EGR or remove it completly from the system. On the new VW's you would get a CEL and the old MB's they didn't have an electric or electronic connection to throw a CEL. If I remember correctly in the VW you could clear the CEL and truck on, I'm not sure you can do this in the CRD. I plan on giving it a try sometime when I can catch the Libery in the garage long enough, and I'm in the mood, and have enough time to work on the thing. I may be able to get to it over semester break when the wife doesn't have to be at the college every day. I don't like her driving my car, for several reasons that I won't go into here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:36 pm 
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oldnavy wrote:
Derek Mc wrote:
Hmm,
How much is an egr valve to buy? or be given might be useful to keep one as a spare guys this seems to be a real issue.
Has anyone contaced DC direct and put the idea of a retrofit Pro-vent to them?


I am sure D/C, VW and who ever else makes intercooled EGR equipped turbo diesels knows about the oil & soot in the intercooler problem, can't be missed. They figure it will not be a problem after ULSD, just the oil in the intercooler tubing. Heck after 10k miles a VW will drain about 3 to 4 oz from intercooler hose just in front of the intercooler coil and probably as much oil and soot has already gone through the intake into the engine. It's not really a big enough of a problem to warrant the mfg's to spend the extra $$$$ for a collector, like MB did on my '83 240D. It had a small oil air seperator mounted on the intake manifold and it worked just great, but a NA diesel didn't have the oil & air flow through the valve cover that new turbo diesels have but for some reason they didn't put it on the turbo powered cars.

The only time a EGR really will cause a drivability problem is if it fails in the open position. On VW's & MB people would just block/disconnect the vacuum for the EGR or remove it completly from the system. On the new VW's you would get a CEL and the old MB's they didn't have an electric or electronic connection to throw a CEL. If I remember correctly in the VW you could clear the CEL and truck on, I'm not sure you can do this in the CRD. I plan on giving it a try sometime when I can catch the Libery in the garage long enough, and I'm in the mood, and have enough time to work on the thing. I may be able to get to it over semester break when the wife doesn't have to be at the college every day. I don't like her driving my car, for several reasons that I won't go into here.


I looked into how the CRD egr controls could set a CEL if you 1. blocked off the egr exhaust into the EGR valve. 2. disconnected the wiring connector to the egr valve. I ran across a project for older VW TDI's called epsilon, that describe how the egr system worked and how to keep the ECM from setting a code if you disconnected it. Based on that description, my best guess (and it is a guess) on how the CRD egr system works is this:

The ECM commands the EGR valve to open and add exhaust into the intake, based on its programming, and other senor input, air intake temperature on the cylinder head, engine load and speed, along with a command to the anti-shudder valve, located in the aluminum air intake inlet, to close slightly to reduce the amount of fresh air and increase the pull of exhaust into the intake. It then measures the flow or pressure drop variance between the masss air flow sensor in the air filter box and the expected amount of exhaust gas. If it doesn't see the expected drop in air flow as measured by the mass air flow sensor, it sets a code. There may also be a hall effect (inductive pickup) position sensor on the egr valve that reports it position back to the ECM as well. This provides both a tamper proof system and a diagnostic that tells the ECM when to set those P0399 codes for insufficient EGR flow.

After looking at what the TDI epsilon project did, it seems their logic was to block off the supply of exhaust gas to the egr valve. Then, knowing about the mass airflow sensor measurments, they built a small electronic device that plugged into the mass air flow sensor, and had a wire input from the egr as well. When the egr command came from the ECM to activate the egr valve, the electronic device they added near the mass air flow sensor received this egr input voltage, and in turn spoofed a "fake" correct electronic response back from the mass air flow sensor to the ECM to tell it that the air flow had dropped a corresponding correct amount,when in fact it had not. This would reportedly avoid setting a CEL and keep the engine free from exhaust soot. While their egr control was a combination of electric/vaccum acuated instead of electical only, the system on the CRD is similar enough that with some measurements of the signal voltage relationships between the mass air flow sensor, while egr command voltages are being sent from the ECM, it would seem possible to do the same on the CRD. If not to eliminate the egr function entirely, it might be possible to reduce the amount of egr gas introduced into the intake, and possibly reduce egt's on the CRD as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:46 pm 
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Sounds like you have a project to get started on.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:42 am 
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Not to be a Necroposter, but I only got my Libby last month and now think that I have an EGR valved failed open, and was wondering if anybody in this thread had any more info to add on the EGR saga? Would a decrease in 4-5 mpg be indicative of a failed EGR valve? I have ~17,000km and am getting around 14-16mpg(US) in the city... :shock:

Being a TDI Veteran, I would love to have either the VAG-COM equivalent to "adapt" the EGR to a minimum setting like I did on my 2001 Jetta TDI, or, failing that, hook up an Epsilon-equivalent system to the EGR system.

I just had the F37 recall done and specifically asked the service writer for the mechanic to do a scan of all codes and investigate why the poor mileage. He told me they found nothing. Still have 4.5 yrs and 83,000 left on the 5/100 B2B, but I'm thinking heavily of checking out the EGR myself since I'm not really trusting the dealer right about now.

...that APS 1500rpm converter for the 545RFE and a Provent is looking pretty good right about now....

Cheers,
Duey

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:13 am 
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DnA,

My mileage dropped a couple of MPG before I got a CEL for the EGR. It had been smoking more than normal also. The mileage drop and smoke preceeded the CEL by a couple thousand miles at least. There are at least two EGR failure scenarios - failed open or closed. I think mine failed at least partly open. I don't think that sets a CEL as readily as the failed closed scenario. So, in short, yes, I think you may well have an EGR problem. Another possibility is a fouled boost sensor.

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05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:19 am 
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Goglio704 wrote:
DnA,

My mileage dropped a couple of MPG before I got a CEL for the EGR. It had been smoking more than normal also. The mileage drop and smoke preceeded the CEL by a couple thousand miles at least. There are at least two EGR failure scenarios - failed open or closed. I think mine failed at least partly open. I don't think that sets a CEL as readily as the failed closed scenario. So, in short, yes, I think you may well have an EGR problem. Another possibility is a fouled boost sensor.


Thanks for the info, Matt! Will check it out. I haven't seen so much as a flicker of the CEL, and the '06's apparently don't let you check for codes like the '05's do/did. I can figure out the EGR valve situation, I figure, but any readily visible clues to a failed boost controller?

Cheers
Duey

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:34 am 
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I haven't personally dealt with the fouled boost sensor problem. I can't find the thread right now, but apparently it is just a matter of removing it and cleaning it. The way I understand it, if the sensor is dirty it can cause the computer to overfuel the engine. That would fit your scenario too.

P.S. Atlantic Blue is the color of mine too. If I'm not mistaken, they dropped it for the 07's?

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05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:54 am 
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DnA Diesel wrote:
Not to be a Necroposter, but I only got my Libby last month and now think that I have an EGR valved failed open, and was wondering if anybody in this thread had any more info to add on the EGR saga? Would a decrease in 4-5 mpg be indicative of a failed EGR valve? I have ~17,000km and am getting around 14-16mpg(US) in the city... :shock:

Your city mileage definately indicates a problem. Where are you pulling those figures? Are you running enough concentrated city mileage to isolate & compute mileage? If you are running a concentration of city mileage, you should periodically get it good & hot and blow the soot out on the expressway. With 17K km, take a look at the air filter if it's still original. You should be inspecting this filter for water marks, road salt, etc... indicating it has been sucking rainwater/snow and possibly getting damp/freezing causing temporary air-flow constrictions.

A couple of obervations from owning a CRD for almost 16 months: 1). City economy is typically poor with this rig. It's as heavy as a full-sized pick-up and delivers similiar economy. In general, fully electronic (drive-by-wire) diesels are sensitive to multiple on-off-on-off "goosing" the throttle driving and thus will burn significant amounts of fuel when driven in a city applications. 2). This diesel likes hot weather for fuel economy. I usually see a good 3-4 mpg drop when the weather turns cold.

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