Didn't Make It To Work...

DocB · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:46 pm

We had some pretty bad rain/ice here in NE PA last night.
Got about 400 yards up the hill and that was it.
So I parked the Jeep in a ditch and walked back to the house.
You couldn't even stand on the road.
Anybody ever put chains on your Libby?
Do we have the clearance?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:12 pm

I honestly don't know. You might get by with it in back. Studs would be better on ice. Don't know if they're legal there or not.

DocB · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:19 pm

I think studs are legal in PA 11/15-3/15, but I need studs AND chains.
I'm really starting to wonder about the pinch weld up front.
Hmm, if I beat it with chains then I won't have to beat it with a hammer!

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:28 pm

I think chains up front would get ugly quick. :shock:

chrispitude · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:25 am

DocB wrote:

We had some pretty bad rain/ice here in NE PA last night.
Got about 400 yards up the hill and that was it.
So I parked the Jeep in a ditch and walked back to the house.
You couldn't even stand on the road.
Anybody ever put chains on your Libby?
Do we have the clearance?

What tires do you have? Ice-rated winter tires like Blizzaks can make a huge difference in sheet ice traction. Granted, you can't go 35mpg and make sharp turns, but you can get around surprisingly well.

- Chris

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:28 am

I would think about cable chains. You can generally get them to hug pretty tight to the tire if you drive slow and they aren't as thik as chains either. If you have stock tires I think it would work in a pinch.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

You have room for cable chains if you are running stock sized tires.

Bigger tires are another story. On 235/75/16 or 245/70/16 you won't have the room (they will rub under suspension compression on the 235/75/16, and rub at full wheel lock on the 245/70/16.) I've looked at both. Either way, you will rip the chains off the wheel best case... worse case they end up doing some nasty damage to your front end.

A lift would of course change this.

I have Michelin X-Ice (stud-less winter compound tire designed for ice and snow) on mine and love them so far. They handle very well, and are quiet, and get good fuel mileage (better than my AT's). Quite a few tire makers are designing studless tires that do ok in ice now. Studs are only legal here between Nov. and April as well. I don't like them due to the noise and the sketchy handling on wet pavement.

DocB · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:54 am

Right now I have the Cooper Discoverer ATR in 225/75/R16. I am very happy with them.
I guess I'll try some chains on the rear for now.
The problem is that I have to run 149 miles on the interstate and then the last 1 mile on ? whatever mother nature chooses to leave me. Part of that last mile is a steep hill through the woods. See my problem. The great compromise.
But thanks for your suggestions.
Keep em coming.

naturist · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:36 am

DocB wrote:

Right now I have the Cooper Discoverer ATR in 225/75/R16. I am very happy with them.
I guess I'll try some chains on the rear for now.
The problem is that I have to run 149 miles on the interstate and then the last 1 mile on ? whatever mother nature chooses to leave me. Part of that last mile is a steep hill through the woods. See my problem. The great compromise.
But thanks for your suggestions.
Keep em coming.

You do know that chains cannot be run faster than 35 under any circumstances, and should not be run on pavement at any speed for more than a few feet? Right?

valoflyby · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:07 am

Cowcatcher wrote:

I would think about cable chains. You can generally get them to hug pretty tight to the tire if you drive slow and they aren't as thik as chains either. If you have stock tires I think it would work in a pinch.

Tire cables are amazing. I had a set for my Honda Prelude when I lived in PA. I was astonished w/ the capabilities of the FWD car /w the cables on it. I was able to go through any snow/ice as long as it was less than bumper height. (After that you'd be snow-pack-planing) On/off was a 5min affair. Couldn't run them on non-snowpack though. So you'd get to the main road, pull off... remove cables. Drive your distance then reapply when you got to the 2ndary roads. Worked great.

DocB · **Posted:** Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:10 am

Chains would only be used when needed.
BUT, we looked around and behind the front and rear wheels tonight.
Even tried on a pair of strap chains.
Here's what we found so far:

REAR TIRE
The strap on the chains clears the caliper clips by 1/4" even when tightened down very taught = too close for me.
On the inside, front of tire, just above axle height, there seems to be lines very close to the tire/rim = Full chains may make short work of the stuff in this area.

FRONT TIRE
I just don't like the look of the pinch weld sticking out so far = snag point, carnage.

I think I'm going to stop by the stealership tomorrow and ask what type of chains they suggest I put on my trail rated vehicle.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

When it comes to chains I don't think there are that many options. The Super-Z cable chains are the only thing I see around here. How often do you get bad weather in the winter? If it is a regular thing, I'd watch Craigslist/Ebay for cheap steel rims, then get a set of snow tires to run in the winter.

DocB · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:13 am

Had telephone conversations today with Jeep, Chrysler, and parts dept regarding tire chains.
Was awful tuff on religion.
I'm a little aggrevated right now so I'll post about it when I get more info.
Let's just say Mopar makes OEM chains for the Liberty, but not for the 225 snow tires I just got.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:16 am

DocB wrote:

Had telephone conversations today with Jeep, Chrysler, and parts dept regarding tire chains.
Was awful tuff on religion.
I'm a little aggrevated right now so I'll post about it when I get more info.
Let's just say Mopar makes OEM chains for the Liberty, but not for the 225 snow tires I just got.

Hi Doc,

It takes an awful lot to stop a Jeep with snow/ice tires. Or maybe I should say, a Jeep with snow/ice tires stops very well on ice.

We live in the Poconos and my wife has gotten through all the nasty stuff lately with no problem. She is a pediatric pharmacist so she needs to get to work about 45 miles away over Blue Mountain in Bethlehem. Yesterday when she came home, she came in the door and exclaimed, "Those tires are the best things EVER!" and started describing all the people in the shoulders and medians, people sliding back down the hills, etc., on her drive home.

What tires did you get? Some are better on ice than others. You want the porous ones that have the microscopic little suction cups. They grab onto ice amazingly well. Blizzaks use this technology (they call it "multicell") and I'm sure there are others.

- Chris

DocB · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:18 am

Chris,
I have the Cooper Discoverer ATR. They seemed to do very well until I hit the black ice on a steep grade.
I will look into the Blizzaks, but I doubt any tire without would have made it.
I just have to get out to the blacktop and then I'm OK. That's why I think chains are probably the best way to go.
BTW-My buddy lives right around the corner from you in Scotia. If you want to GTG and meet up and talk Jeep someday, let me know.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

DocB wrote:

Chris,
I will look into the Blizzaks, but I doubt any tire without would have made it.

Don't underestimate winter tires. A set of studded Nokians will stop and go on an ice rink (there was a magazine that actually tested winter tires on a hockey rink). On the other hand, they are probably overkill for what you need.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:45 am

DocB wrote:

Chris,
I have the Cooper Discoverer ATR. They seemed to do very well until I hit the black ice on a steep grade.
I will look into the Blizzaks, but I doubt any tire without would have made it.
I just have to get out to the blacktop and then I'm OK. That's why I think chains are probably the best way to go.
BTW-My buddy lives right around the corner from you in Scotia. If you want to GTG and meet up and talk Jeep someday, let me know.

Hi Doc,

How steep is the grade? Do you have a picture? They might do better than you think (or the hill may be steeper than I think). There were some cases where I made it up a hill covered by sheet ice and I was absolutely amazed they pulled the Jeep right up the hill. I don't think I could have even gotten out and stood on my own two feet.

Perhaps after the holidays when the dust settles, we could get together. If the weather get especially bad, you could also try out the Blizzaks if we can get to your place.

Your buddy's in Sciota; what town do you live in?

- Chris

DocB · **Posted:** Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:18 am

Chris,
Thanks for the offer, I just might take you up on it.
I'll try and get some pics for you soon. I didn't take any pics at the time. I was going to take my camera with me if I had to yank it out with the 4WD Cat backhoe with double ring chains all around. I was up till 3AM putting on the chains and wasn't really in a picture taking mood.....
Next day it warmed up a little bit and took the sheen off the ice and the sanding truck came by so I just walked right out. Jeep did pretty well.
But that's exactly what I'm talking about. Black ice, 10-15% grade.....you need chains. Studded tires might do, but then I would have to run them all the time.
We are located about 32 miles north of Scranton. Looking forward to the meet.
BTW-Let me know if you are interested in guages. I have designed a dynomite guage mounting system. Nothing like it on the planet. Proto type is done and we are fabricating a few to mount in the Jeep. You could let me know what you think.
Bruno.....

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:41 am

Nokians would eat any icy hill for breakfast. No kidding. studded, its not even a contest.

Nokia drives these tires on their POLISHED ice test track at 100 mph. they take curves at 40 mph on that polished ice....this is exactly like an ice rink that a zamboni just polished with warm water. They do the most insane ice and snow tests at their huge facitlity in Europe and actually produce a Z-rated speed snow tire...that 118+ mph folks. They have been reported to outperform straight up snow tires like Blizzaks and others. If you don't believe, just do a bit of reading on Nokian R&D, testing, Hakka siping, etc...look at at Ice and snow testing tracks and it will blow you away. Driving on them is just the icing on the cake. I can't recommend them enough for ice and snow.

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