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First Time: Load of Bad Fuel
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Author:  BLake [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  First Time: Load of Bad Fuel
20 years of owning a diesel vehicle and I just got my first load of bad fuel. The thing could barely get up to 50MPH, no codes. I pulled a sample off the air bleed and the fuel is yellow and cloudy. Smells like wax. You would think with the introduction of ULSD that fuel from a reputable station would only get better. Be careful out there.

Now, considering that it is a holiday weekend and the dealer is closed, I could use some guidance for dealing with this. As quickly as possible.

The station was Shell 1449 Battlefield Blvd, Tidewater members take note. I've notice the fuel at all the local stations lately has been extra foamy and funky smelling.

Image
Author:  BLake [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sent an email to Shell telling them one of there stations is selling bad fuel. I tried to call the station to warn them but all listed numbers were disconnected. A bunch of stations have changed ownership or brands lately.

Within 5 minutes, Shell corporate replied telling me to send them receipts for the fuel and two estimates to repair the damage. Off to a good start considering...
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Siphoning fuel out of your tank is stinky business,but easily done with cheap plastic hose from Home depot or wherever. But that won't solve the most pressing problems.

The larger problems from "bad diesel" could be
1) junk from fuel now in your tank, possibly sediment dirt
2) algae bloom (which is probably clogging filters)

I suspect a bloom is the problem. Can't be easily fixed at home, take to dealer. There ARE commercial additives called biocides that kill diesel algaes but it won't solve all the problems, so let the deal tow and handle it. Don't chance it.

If you are really curious, the water-seperator should drain out some glop if you open it.
Author:  Endurance [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
How did you take that sample, thats awesome. Is there an easy access to the fuel line or something?
Author:  BLake [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Endurance wrote:
How did you take that sample, thats awesome. Is there an easy access to the fuel line or something?


On the side of the fuel filter housing is a nipple for bleeding air from the system when you change filters. I put a piece of tubing on the nipple, ran it into the jar and cracked it open as if I was bleeding air. You have to pump the plunger a few times to build up pressure so the fuel will come out.
Author:  Endurance [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is that the same place where you're supposed to push/pump something after you ran out of diesel? How does that work.

edit:

Image



There is a nipple on that pic, but how do you get diesel out of it? :D
Author:  BLake [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
See the silver fitting hiding behind the gold colored side banjo fitting? That is the bleeder screw. Just like on brakes but bigger. Simplified procedure goes like this: Push on the plunger up to 20 times or until it is harder to push. Open the bleeder. If there is air in the system, you will hear it hiss. Repeat until fuel comes out. There is no need to push on the plunger while the bleeder is open like when bleeding brakes. I don't know how, but it doesn't let air back in.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can think of 2 possibilities here - one is that the fuel tank and system cleaning, and new fuel will take care of the problem - the other is more serious, depending on what's actually in that fuel, damage to the CP3 pump and injectors may have occured. In either case, I would have a good Jeep/Dodge dealer with diesel mechanics do the repair, as you will need very good documentation from them if the pump and or injectors are damaged. Chances are that they're fine, but I would proceed as if they were negatively affected and have it thoroughly checked out and fully documented on your service record.

Suggestions on the vehicle:

Have it towed (don't run the engine) to a dealer and ask them to:
Drain and clean the fuel tank and lines
Replace the fuel filter, and keep a spare filter on board the vehicle just in case
Drain and purge the fuel rail, injector lines and return lines with a good diesel purge product
Add diesel fuel conditioner to the tank
Check the injectors for proper flow rate with their scantool diagnostic and other checks designated by the FSM
Check the fuel rail pressure readings to be sure the CP3 pump hasn't been damaged by that nasty looking fuel
If it isn't running correctly after that, have the injectors removed and tested.
Keep a sample of that fuel and receipt for proof of payment
Document all of the charges and present them to Shell as quickly as you can - it could be several hundred dollars or more if they have to remove the injectors and test them as well as clean the fuel tank. If the pump or injectors are damaged, replacement cost could be in the thousands

If any fuel pressure readings or injectors are off spec, ask Shell to pay for replacing the pump and injectors if necessary. You will probably need excellent documentation from the dealership showing off spec readings on the fuel pump and or injectors before this would be necessary or approved by Shell. It's critical to keep a sample of that fuel for lab analysis if Shell asks for proof before paying for anything more than fuel tank cleaning and replacement.

Let us know how it works out. There is at least one member here who had a bad fuel experience - iirc, his was a case of cleaning, not equipment replacement. Wouldn't hurt to ask him if I could remember who it was :-) Don't remember if it was OldNavy or not.
Author:  CATCRD [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
That was me about 9 mos ago. Mine died on the interstate while passing a semi. I called and left messages on the gas station's machine to document that it had happened that night, and had it towed to the dealer, writing on the tag that I suspected bad fuel. They had to drop the tank and clean it out, replace the fuel filter and flush the lines, to the tune of $800. I had them save a sample for me, but you've already got that. I took the sample, fuel receipt, towing and service receipts to them and they cut me a check. It's been running fine ever since. This was B20 BTW.
Author:  BLake [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Couldn't do anything on it this weekend. The tow truck picked it up this morning. Hooked up my code scanner this morning and pulled P0093. That equals Fuel Sys Leak Detected-Large Leak. Didn't smell any fuel leaks. No CEL???

I am trying a different dealer than the one I bought the Jeep from. It is going to a dealer that also sells Dodge trucks. I noticed a lot of Rams parked in the employee lot so hopefully someone there speaks diesel.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Best wishes on getting it restored. Keep us posted on what you find.
Author:  dog_party [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow! Scary report BLake! I'll steer clear of Battlefield. I've been filling up on North Hampton lately and haven't had any bad experiences.

Are you going to Green Gifford? That's where I'm going the next time my truck needs a diesel tech. Let us know how things turn out.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just as an FYI, the CP3, rail, and injectors are all internally coated with a wear package from Bosch for situations just as this. I have seen fuel that was literally gel go through the system with no noticable effects, so there shouldn't be a need to worry about damage to the components. Drain the tank, change the fuel filter and you'll be good to go.
Author:  BLake [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrMopar,
Good to know. The only thing I fear is that the fuel was contaminated with something that eats up parts.

Dog Party,
Yes I took it to Green Gifford. I called GG in the morning to see if they could take my Jeep. The service writer told me to call Roadside Assistance and have them tow it in. He said, basically, the car don't run, it ain't your problem why, use the benefit. I stopped by at noon to talk with them. The service writer said they have one guy that works on all diesels (Jeep and Dodge) and loves working on them. I told him about my on going MPG problem and without prompting, said they would need to hook it up the computer and run a bunch of fuel system checks. In three tries to get it checked at greenbrier, all they did was take it for a drive around the block and say it had plenty of power, no problem noted, 18 MPG is good for these. He said they get lots of frustrated, POed people stop in after GB "fixes" their cars. I think I will call GB and tell them I just took my CRD to another dealer for some really expensive insurance work, too bad they sucked so bad, they would have gotten the job. May as well have some fun with the situation. I report back with a review of Green Gifford.
Author:  BioJeep [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mr Mopar, would you happen to know whether a CRD dying a couple dozen times at high throttle due to a large fuel leak (P0093) could cause any harm to the injectors or pump? This symptom has happened ~30 times to me and I wonder if it could have any effect in the long term.
Author:  BLake [ Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's been at Green Gifford for 8 work days and the service manager doesn't even know if the mechanic has done anything to it yet. Not good. I called them every day for the last week and they finally returned my call. At this point, I'm ready to send a flat bed over there to take it to another dealer.
Author:  dog_party [ Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
:-( That sucks! Okay, it looks like Halls takes the "Best Of The Beach" award for service. Just don't get stuck with Bernie as a service rep. Try to get Mike Hall if you can.
Author:  BLake [ Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
The delay in fixing mine looks like a case of the Bigger Better Deal. 3 Dodge trucks came in the same day with blown engines from water ingestion. My Jeep would have been a cash cow on any other week but $5000 Cummins engine trumps $500 flush out every time.

They have done some work on it and actually hooked it up to the StarScan and determined that it has a bad air leak in the fuel system. That is a lot more than Greenbrier ever did.

I had to deal with the Manager because the Service writer was out sick for a few days. The Service Manager tried to BS me with the "Parts are on Order" line. I asked him "what parts?" He said "parts". I said "exactly what parts" He didn't have an answer. I told him that he was feeding me a line of crap and if he had parts on order the exact parts would be noted on the invoice. He realized he was busted so he went to talk to the mechanic and came back with the correct answer, "We haven't done anything on it other than check and confirm the fuel is bad. There are 3 trucks ahead of you with blown engines, the mechanic is working on those first."

The Writer was back at work and I had a long conversation with him. I think we are on the same page now. If I tell him the engines makes too much exhaust smoke he knows that I know what is normal and what is too much. I don't expect to be told again that all diesels smoke and rattle as Greenbrier told me.
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