LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Was happy, now becoming disenchanted -- A DC Business Case

I was happy enough to write a letter to Consumer Reports (I'm a multi-decade customer) chastising them for their misleading evaluation of the Liberty CRD.

Well stated. I suggest you send that in an email to DCX.
...

CR should only be used as research material. They are not the final word on any product. This is even more apparent with their recent retraction of the car seat report that they fudged up pretty badly. If you look at their ratings on vehicles, they are clearly biased toward the japanese imports. Recently they referred to the Lincoln Town car as giggly ride and said some other bad things about it. Duh, people don't buy town cars to take em to the track...they buy them for a comfortable ride, safety, and people room. I just don't like CR at all and think that whatever they print should be considered flawwed until it is proven by one or two other reliable sources.

no-blue-screen wrote:

If taken in the context most of the reviews are written (editorials), they are a fine resource. For all final decisions, people should really take care to separate facts from opinions and conjecture, then use those facts and their own personal opinions ( from test rides, personal likes/dislikes) to make their own decision which would be more correct for them.

And also remember facts can be made up ... try to get same facts from more than one source. I know 54% of all statistics are pulled out of thin air ... :lol:

It's much better to come to a "right for you" answer than to attempt to answer with a "right for all".

Have your lawyer call the service rep back and ask him how he can void the warranty when the muffler isn't even mentioned in the warranty.

I made sure to read thru the warranty before changing my muffler out. Warranty only covers the exhaust system back to and including the catalytic converter, no further, and that mainly because of federal emissions law. If the cat wasn't required, they probably wouldn't even mention the exhaust system in the warranty.

As it is, the muffler and the tailpipe ARE NOT part of the warranty. If the service rep won't back down, tell him "fine, see you in court".

retmil46 wrote:

THANKS I will relay this information to her.

Author:	sbohner [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:22 am ]
Post subject:	Was happy, now becoming disenchanted -- A DC Business Case
At first I was delighted to find a diesel Jeep that could replace our aging Subaru Outback. While the Subaru had served us well, I wanted to buy American and DC was a viable choice. I was happy with my 2002 Mercedes, so I thought; perhaps some of that character had rubbed off on Jeep. After my first month, I was largely satisfied -- reasonable mileage, with good pep in a hearty chassis for mountains, suburbs, and highways. I could live with the noise since it was after all a Jeep. I was happy enough to write a letter to Consumer Reports (I'm a multi-decade customer) chastising them for their misleading evaluation of the Liberty CRD. After my second month and finding out that the CRD was discontinued, I was a bit disappointed. However, my opinion of the CRD was still high since diesel motors were known to be very reliable over a long life. Now at 7 months and 11K+ miles, a new EGR, an EGR control flow on the way, a recall on Lower Ball Joints, and all the fuss about the TC and pump, I'm becoming disenchanted. While spending over $25K for a SUV these days is not a big deal, for it not to have a promising future due largely to bad design decisions is disheartening. With the Dodge Cummins truck and Mercedes CDI, DC should have had enough experience not to have an EGR problem with oil and soot venting across a small EGR. The same goes for the transmission -- more than a programmable TCM is needed to have a reliable torque converter. DC did not bring their resources to bear on the introduction of diesel into the American market and if they do not respond to the problem with integrity, this will result in their competition using the CRD as a “poster child” as they hoist up their Hybrids or even their versions of diesel entrants. This would be unfortunate since the diesel in the CRD is proven, the Liberty is proven, and even the transmission is proven -- it's just that they were not proven together. This is a forgivable mistake if DC takes responsibility soon. It is my belief that DC could turn this lemon into lemonade by providing: 1. a recall that would introduce a crankcase ventilation filter to prevent oil and soot mixture from ruining the ERG components, and 2. a recall that introduce a torque converter designed for our diesel along with a pump that would increase the volume of fluid for cooling the torque converter at the lower RPMs where the diesel develops its torque (it is largely accepted now that F37 does not accomplish this). The return on investment would be to reduce some key market risks that are looming with the current economy. First, DC would retain many of the 11,700 customers who put their trust in the Jeep brand -- it is easier (and cheaper) to sell to an existing customer than to win-over a new one. Second, the market risk for introducing diesels into the American market would be substantially reduced as DC would be seen as standing behind their products -- they would be the preferred provider for American diesel vehicles (a burgeoning market with many parallels with Europe). Third, DC could avoid what is likely to be costly and protracted litigation where CRD owners attempt to force buy-backs through lemon laws and vent their frustrations through class-action suits (all of which would bring bad publicity to DC and misuse expensive legal staff for preventable claims). And fourth, it is the right thing to do – while the expenses to rectify the problems are high enough to cost jobs, these are dwarfed by the potential loss of market share in an increasingly unforgiving economy that could result in many times more jobs lost. The bottom line is that DC has a reasonable business case to respond to the Jeep Liberty CRD owner's situation. Most of us really enjoy the CRD, but the reliability is hampered by some design choices that need to be rectrified. DC could build a good business case that would better serve us customers and reduce market risks for the future.

Author:	bigiron [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:30 am ]
Post subject:
Well stated. I suggest you send that in an email to DCX. Seeing you're from Blacksburg, I assume you're a Hokie fan....tough loss in the Peach Bowl.....I was there. Heartbreaking. I was pulling for you guys hard.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Was happy, now becoming disenchanted -- A DC Business Ca
sbohner wrote: I was happy enough to write a letter to Consumer Reports (I'm a multi-decade customer) chastising them for their misleading evaluation of the Liberty CRD. What I often wonder is why CR hasn't been all over this vehicle for reliability issues. CR has been silent since flogging it on their initial reviews.

Author:	sbohner [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:11 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks BigIron, I thought about emailing something like this to DCX, but their email is read and responded to by customer service. They are not the ones who would consider the issue to be a business decison. Business executives are the ones that should consider the message, but they are not normally the audience for the myriad of customer suggestions. Perhaps if I find a way to send a message to someone at DCX who would be interested, I will go the next step. Thanks for pulling for the Hokies at the Peach Bowl! We are hopeful for next year!

Author:	USNA [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:11 am ]
Post subject:
Thank you, again well said.

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Author:	Joe Romas [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject:
Comsumer Reports is very bias against diesels and have always shunned them. They did a article on one of GM's diesels in the 80's and all they found bad was a piece of loose trim and bad windshield wipers, neither of which was diesel specific Their creditability with the infant car seats shows what they're worth All your other points are very valid and true. Unfortunatly if the American automoble companies did the right thing they wouldn't be where the are today. The jobs that would be cut should be the BEAN COUNTERS that can't see past this months balance sheets. Also you didn't mention all the people you would tell to stay away from Chrysler

Author:	KenJennings [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:39 am ]
Post subject:
bigiron wrote: Well stated. I suggest you send that in an email to DCX. ... email is likely to be ignored. These "customer service" people are employed to blunt any pointed customer requests with polite, diplomatic refusals. They don't make decisions and are probably unlikely to forward requests anywhere else in the company. Unless... they start getting a lot of mails about a particular subject. If they were flooded with a lot of emails it might start to trickle up through the system. It might also be that the only management reaction will be to find another way to diplomatically blunt customer criticism. Paper letters aren't as easy to delete as emails. If you bothered to take the time to write it down and stick a stamp on it then you must be serious about it and they may take it more seriously. Also, addressed properly, paper mail may end up going outside of the customer service black hole and be seen by someone in the company who cares.

Author:	no-blue-screen [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:58 am ]
Post subject:
CR should only be used as research material. They are not the final word on any product. This is even more apparent with their recent retraction of the car seat report that they fudged up pretty badly. If you look at their ratings on vehicles, they are clearly biased toward the japanese imports. Recently they referred to the Lincoln Town car as giggly ride and said some other bad things about it. Duh, people don't buy town cars to take em to the track...they buy them for a comfortable ride, safety, and people room. I just don't like CR at all and think that whatever they print should be considered flawwed until it is proven by one or two other reliable sources.

Author:	bbo [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:
no-blue-screen wrote: CR should only be used as research material. They are not the final word on any product. This is even more apparent with their recent retraction of the car seat report that they fudged up pretty badly. If you look at their ratings on vehicles, they are clearly biased toward the japanese imports. Recently they referred to the Lincoln Town car as giggly ride and said some other bad things about it. Duh, people don't buy town cars to take em to the track...they buy them for a comfortable ride, safety, and people room. I just don't like CR at all and think that whatever they print should be considered flawwed until it is proven by one or two other reliable sources. If taken in the context most of the reviews are written (editorials), they are a fine resource. For all final decisions, people should really take care to separate facts from opinions and conjecture, then use those facts and their own personal opinions ( from test rides, personal likes/dislikes) to make their own decision which would be more correct for them. And also remember facts can be made up ... try to get same facts from more than one source. I know 54% of all statistics are pulled out of thin air ... It's much better to come to a "right for you" answer than to attempt to answer with a "right for all".

Author:	no-blue-screen [ Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:
bbo wrote: no-blue-screen wrote: CR should only be used as research material. They are not the final word on any product. This is even more apparent with their recent retraction of the car seat report that they fudged up pretty badly. If you look at their ratings on vehicles, they are clearly biased toward the japanese imports. Recently they referred to the Lincoln Town car as giggly ride and said some other bad things about it. Duh, people don't buy town cars to take em to the track...they buy them for a comfortable ride, safety, and people room. I just don't like CR at all and think that whatever they print should be considered flawwed until it is proven by one or two other reliable sources. If taken in the context most of the reviews are written (editorials), they are a fine resource. For all final decisions, people should really take care to separate facts from opinions and conjecture, then use those facts and their own personal opinions ( from test rides, personal likes/dislikes) to make their own decision which would be more correct for them. And also remember facts can be made up ... try to get same facts from more than one source. I know 54% of all statistics are pulled out of thin air ... It's much better to come to a "right for you" answer than to attempt to answer with a "right for all". The problem is that most people I have talked to think consumer reports is the 'holy grail' and that just isn't true. People like us who read internet forums and know more about vehicles than the average Joe can seperate fact from opinion, but it isn't that simple for someone who doesn't have a little more knowledge on the subject.

Author:	KJMedic [ Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree with the letter. I got a phone call from my lawyer and she stated that the Service Rep. or what ever he was stated that he could void my warr. because of the "high flow" muffler. With service like that I don't think DCX is doing a very good job of Customer Service. I am starting to wish I had my Chevy back.

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Have your lawyer call the service rep back and ask him how he can void the warranty when the muffler isn't even mentioned in the warranty. I made sure to read thru the warranty before changing my muffler out. Warranty only covers the exhaust system back to and including the catalytic converter, no further, and that mainly because of federal emissions law. If the cat wasn't required, they probably wouldn't even mention the exhaust system in the warranty. As it is, the muffler and the tailpipe ARE NOT part of the warranty. If the service rep won't back down, tell him "fine, see you in court".

Author:	KJMedic [ Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: Have your lawyer call the service rep back and ask him how he can void the warranty when the muffler isn't even mentioned in the warranty. I made sure to read thru the warranty before changing my muffler out. Warranty only covers the exhaust system back to and including the catalytic converter, no further, and that mainly because of federal emissions law. If the cat wasn't required, they probably wouldn't even mention the exhaust system in the warranty. As it is, the muffler and the tailpipe ARE NOT part of the warranty. If the service rep won't back down, tell him "fine, see you in court". THANKS I will relay this information to her.

Author:	RFCRD [ Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:16 am ]
Post subject:
KJMedic wrote: retmil46 wrote: Have your lawyer call the service rep back and ask him how he can void the warranty when the muffler isn't even mentioned in the warranty. I made sure to read thru the warranty before changing my muffler out. Warranty only covers the exhaust system back to and including the catalytic converter, no further, and that mainly because of federal emissions law. If the cat wasn't required, they probably wouldn't even mention the exhaust system in the warranty. As it is, the muffler and the tailpipe ARE NOT part of the warranty. If the service rep won't back down, tell him "fine, see you in court". THANKS I will relay this information to her. Wouldn't you also have a good case for selective descrimination? How many others are running high-flow mufflers without problems? Is DC going to send them all notice that their warranties are void because the factory muffler is not being used?

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Author:	no-blue-screen [ Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:49 am ]
Post subject:
That has to be the most asinine thing I have ever heard. You were obviously talking to an idiot. 1) They can't void your warranty 2) They can only refuse warranty coverage 3) In order to refuse warranty coverage, they have to prove that the after market part you installed caused the problem/failure that they are being asked to cover. If someone else told you something different, they don't know what they are talking about. That would be like DCX telling you that they will void your warranty if you use anything other than an OEM air filter or oil filter. That isn't legal and you are allowed to use after market parts.