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Double trouble? smoking / grinding
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17092		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  KJ79 [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Double trouble? smoking / grinding
Trouble #1 - I noticed yesterday that upon starting the CRD the exhaust was spewing pure white smoke - not talking about water vapor, but puffy thick wafting white smoke - (like theater smoke). Also a terrible chemical smell (not diesel smell) was present outside. The outside temperature was about 40F. Except for the smoke all seemed to be OK. So I drove and after about 3 minutes driving when temp gauge was halfway to normal, smoke had pretty much disappeared. Has anybody else had this. Could it have been a bit of nasty fuel or what might this have been?

Trouble #2 - I noticed that with medium to hard accelleration from stand still - during shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd and sometimes from 3rd to 4th I can hear a mechanical scratching or grinding sound (kind of metal to metal). In fact it sounds exactly like when the traction control (ESP) activates - but the ESP light does not indicate) - it just happens to sound like that. The odd time depending on temperature of the transmission this sound is accompanied by a sort of squeek - like worn out brake pads. This is audible during gear changes, at the moment the gear engages and for just a fraction of a second. I have not brought it in for the F37 as yet. It would seem to me that the front pump is not applying enough pressure , causing excessive slippage, instead of crisp shifting. Any transmission opinions out there?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I sometimes get white smoke for a short perios of time on a cold start. I think this is normal on the CRD. The smell of USLD is quite a bit different than traditional diesel exhaust. I would think what you are seeing under number 1 is just normal operation. Don't know on #2.
Author:  bigiron [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: double trouble? smoking / grinding
KJ79 wrote:
Trouble #2 - I noticed that with medium to hard accelleration from stand still - during shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd and sometimes from 3rd to 4th I can hear a mechanical scratching or grinding sound (kind of metal to metal). In fact it sounds exactly like when the traction control (ESP) activates - but the ESP light does not indicate) - it just happens to sound like that. The odd time depending on temperature of the transmission this sound is accompanied by a sort of squeek - like worn out brake pads. This is audible during gear changes, at the moment the gear engages and for just a fraction of a second. I have not brought it in for the F37 as yet. It would seem to me that the front pump is not applying enough pressure , causing excessive slippage, instead of crisp shifting. Any transmission opinions out there?


I'm experiencing the exact phenomenon, and I also haven't had F37 done.
Author:  vtdog [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't say for sure as to the CRD, but when I had my diesel rabbit big time white smoking was a sign of a clogged fuel filter
Author:  retmil46 [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
vtdog wrote:
I can't say for sure as to the CRD, but when I had my diesel rabbit big time white smoking was a sign of a clogged fuel filter


First time I got a clogged fuel filter on the CRD, that's exactly what it did - white smoke. That's the only time I've seen it do that, regardless of temp or other conditions. Also had the acrid smell, again only time I've noticed it was with the clogged filter.

Think you'd better change out the fuel filter.

Same on my '87 MB, when I can see white smoke wafting up behind me going out the driveway, I know it's time to change the prefilter.

Basically, white smoke means the engine is running lean, not getting enough fuel for proper combustion.
Author:  KJ79 [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks. Is it reasonable to assume that the fuel filter is clogged at 12,500 miles? I thought is was just breaking in now and did not expect the filter to be clogged at such low mileage. Please tell me that I am wrong and this is 'normal' for a CRD.
Author:  TDI4BY [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I just changed mine at 28,000 miles and it was running fine. But a few bad tanks of fuel could have clogged yours, especially if there was an Algae problem in the fuel.
Author:  Herk [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:31 am ]
Post subject: 
All it takes is couple bad tanks of fuel and you will clog the filter.
Author:  Marlon_JBT [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
I sometimes get white smoke for a short perios of time on a cold start. I think this is normal on the CRD. The smell of USLD is quite a bit different than traditional diesel exhaust. I would think what you are seeing under number 1 is just normal operation. Don't know on #2.
I do as well. If it's just right after or during startup, it should be entirely normal.
Author:  retmil46 [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Marlon_JBT wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
I sometimes get white smoke for a short perios of time on a cold start. I think this is normal on the CRD. The smell of USLD is quite a bit different than traditional diesel exhaust. I would think what you are seeing under number 1 is just normal operation. Don't know on #2.
I do as well. If it's just right after or during startup, it should be entirely normal.


Respectfully, from the original description and my own experience with a clogged fuel filter, what the original poster is describing (thick white smoke and acrid smell) isn't normal.

And from my own experience, it can take as little as 1/2 tank of bad fuel and less than 100 miles of driving to completely clog the filter and turn the CRD into a FORD (Found On Road Dead).

Had my first clogged filter with only 3500 miles on the odometer. One bad tank of fuel, and less than 80 miles of driving after that fillup, the filter was clogged so bad you couldn't even put it in drive without killing the engine. Had to get it towed to the shop.

And as RFCRD has mentioned in another thread, in freezing temps any water that has accumulated in the filter over it's service life can freeze and essentially clog the filter. That's why many people make it standard practice to change the fuel filters on their diesel prior to the onset of winter.

IMO, better safe than sorry, especially during the winter. $35 for a new filter will look like a pretty good bargain compared to a tow bill and being stuck at the side of the road.
Author:  KJ79 [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Retmill46,I see you are using a 2 micron fuel filter - is that a direct replacement for the corporate unit which I believe is 3 micron. I went on a Perma-cool web site but it does not seem to have listings. How/where do you get these filters?

Thanks to all the replies, I better change the filter out as soon as I have a chance.
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
KJ79 wrote:
Retmill46,I see you are using a 2 micron fuel filter - is that a direct replacement for the corporate unit which I believe is 3 micron. I went on a Perma-cool web site but it does not seem to have listings. How/where do you get these filters?

Thanks to all the replies, I better change the filter out as soon as I have a chance.


On their web site catalog, it's listed under fuel filter/water separator kits. You can buy the kits and replacement filters thru JC Whitney, or use their site links to Jegs Performance or Summit Racing.

Actually, I have the Permacool plumbed in ahead of the factory filter, acting as a prefilter. Fuel goes thru the Permacool first, then thru the factory filter. Due to lack of room under the hood, I had to mount it sideways tystrapped to the battery.

You can probably find a smaller/better suited filter/water sep unit to use as a prefilter. Main reason I used the Permacool unit was that I just happened to have one on hand, for planned use in another vehicle, the last time I had the factory filter clog on me.

After seeing what a PITA it was to replace/drain the factory filter in my own driveway (much less on the side of the road on a cold winter's night), I was PO'd and just wanted something that was easier to drain/service/replace if the need arose, and just grabbed the Permacool and plumbed it in.

Now, it's a 10 minute evolution to drain/replace the Permacool filter, reprime the fuel system, and be on my way.

Another reason I plumbed the Permacool ahead of the factory filter - Permacool replacement filter costs $12, factory filter costs $35. And if I'm ever caught without a spare Permacool filter and it gets clogged, I can just bypass it and continue on for a ways with the factory filter.

Even a clear plastic 20 micron prefilter such as on my MB would be better than nothing IMO. Costs about $5 or so, catches the really big stuff that would clog the 3 micron filter in short order, and give you a visual indication of fuel quality.

Twice in the past year, when I had to get fuel at other than my usual filling stations, what i drained out of the Permacool was so flat-out nasty (rust, dirt, water, pea-green soup) that I trashed the filter and spun on a new one. Haven't had to touch the factory filter, and haven't been stopped at the side of the road either.

I drain down the Permacool every two tanks, and even with my usual "good" filling stations, I end up getting 1/2 to 1 ounce of water each time I drain it.
Author:  onthehunt [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is water in all diesel fuel. Can't help it. Just a question of how much.
Author:  KJ79 [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Filter changed ! All seems to be well. I put the drivers side wheel on a steel ramp and disconnected the water sensor and took the filter out from underneath - seems to work well with large hands. Canadian dealer wanted $58.75 for this filter. I insisted I deserve wholesale, so he gave me about $10 off. Have not seen any white smoke on my little test drive.
Going to do a high altitude 500 mile trip this weekend, at least no need to worry about the clogged filter.

Emailed WIX, they replied within 24 hours, they plan to have a fuel filter available in April.
Author:  gsbrockman [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would normally have recommended periodic draining of the fuel filter, KJ79, but I'd caught too much flack from RFCRD, TDI4BY, and onthehunt because it's such a waste of time.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... sc&start=0

In all seriousness, you may want to consider a different retailer for your future diesel fuel purchases.

Greg
Author:  KJ79 [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
gsbrockman,
As for the costly filter. I had only a limited amount of time available and needed the filter the same day as I will be leaving on a 500 mile trip today I did not want the risk (as referrred to by Mitchell Oates).
I would have gotten the filter on the other side of the border (I only live as the crow flies 3 miles north of the border, as I do to buy my Rotella T in WA, as Wally world in Canada does not seem to carry it.
- Talking about the other side of the border, I am almost certain that's where I picked up bad fuel. My own mistake, it was a rather non-descript gas station with the diesel pump way out in the back. I guess the only good thing there was the price, but who knows - I might have been recycling old crank case oil ! What was I thinking, it became a very expensive fill up all facts considerd. :oops:
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