noob Sould I pull the trigger or not.

Dill · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:32 am

To start with I apologize, I know you have been asked and answered these questions a million times already. But after searching and reading, I still feel compelled to ask them myself. I have been looking for a new DD. I sell insurance so I put quite a few miles on a year. I was looking at fullsize pickups, but can't justify the cost to get a cummins or duramax. 40k in my opionon is just too much. Same with the dealer who could order me a new grand with a crd.
So I did a little searching and found 3 crd kjs in the area with real low miles, 10-20k for relatively cheap money. So the fact that people are trading these things in, has me concerned. When they first came out my parents looked high and low for new one and couldn't find one. And now used ones are around?
So are they worth the hassle? I know this is a kj site, so you guys will be biased towards them. If it wasn't a diesel, I probably wouldn't even be looking at them. But I love to burn oil. I currently have a TDI jetta, and had a rabbit diesel back in the day.
Also what are people getting for mileage in the northeast? We are suddenly having a very cold winter, are they starting in -5 weather? While I enjoy wrenching on my vehicles, I have toys to wrench on, I would like a dd that I can drive and not worry about.
Thanks

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:40 am

Dill wrote:

To start with I apologize, I know you have been asked and answered these questions a million times already. But after searching and reading, I still feel compelled to ask them myself. I have been looking for a new DD. I sell insurance so I put quite a few miles on a year. I was looking at fullsize pickups, but can't justify the cost to get a cummins or duramax. 40k in my opionon is just too much. Same with the dealer who could order me a new grand with a crd.
So I did a little searching and found 3 crd kjs in the area with real low miles, 10-20k for relatively cheap money. So the fact that people are trading these things in, has me concerned. When they first came out my parents looked high and low for new one and couldn't find one. And now used ones are around?
So are they worth the hassle? I know this is a kj site, so you guys will be biased towards them. If it wasn't a diesel, I probably wouldn't even be looking at them. But I love to burn oil. I currently have a TDI jetta, and had a rabbit diesel back in the day.
Also what are people getting for mileage in the northeast? We are suddenly having a very cold winter, are they starting in -5 weather? While I enjoy wrenching on my vehicles, I have toys to wrench on, I would like a dd that I can drive and not worry about.
Thanks

It will start at -5 if you get the improved glow plug reflash. It won't sound real good for a second or two but it will fire. These ain't your grandpa's diesels. It was in a recall I got last summer. It will anyway if you plug it in. Just put it on a timer and have it kick on 30 min before you leave. Plan on 24 ish mpg during the winter on hwy. I got 31 once last summer.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:43 am

Dill wrote:

So are they worth the hassle? I know this is a kj site, so you guys will be biased towards them. If it wasn't a diesel, I probably wouldn't even be looking at them. But I love to burn oil. I currently have a TDI jetta, and had a rabbit diesel back in the day.

Well, I'm not the least bit biased toward Jeep or DC.

This is by far the worst POS I have ever owned and will likely be gone from my driveway once the majority of the basic warranty mileage is run-out. Every vehicle has the right kind of owner and a market price that makes ownership worthwhile. If you are the tinkering type then you may be the right kind of owner. If you choose to buy one, I would not pay a premium for one of these as you will need the money to keep it running as you will get raped on parts & service by DCX (if you can find parts).

BTW, If you love to burn oil the CRD will be the perfect vehicle for you.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:46 am

RFCRD wrote:

Dill wrote:

So are they worth the hassle? I know this is a kj site, so you guys will be biased towards them. If it wasn't a diesel, I probably wouldn't even be looking at them. But I love to burn oil. I currently have a TDI jetta, and had a rabbit diesel back in the day.

Well, I'm not the least bit biased toward Jeep or DC.

This is by far the worst POS I have ever owned and will likely be gone from my driveway once the majority of the basic warranty mileage is run-out. Every vehicle has the right kind of owner and a market price that makes ownership worthwhile. If you are the tinkering type then you may be the right kind of owner. If you choose to buy one, I would not pay a premium for one of these as you will need the money to keep it running as you will get raped on parts & service by DCX (if you can find parts).

BTW, If you love to burn oil the CRD will be the perfect vehicle for you.

Oh come on now! You know that most CRD's are trouble free like mine is.....at least 2006 models.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:01 pm

Basically our '05 CRD has been trouble free. One EGR & EGR FCV, new CAC hose's, several TSB flash's and the F37 recall, but we have never had a problem that has left us stranded. The tranny was a little clunky and a TSB seems to have taken care of that, however you can get a dragging shift at 35 mph if you excelerate to 35 then suddenly back of the throttle it will shift kind of funky, but it does not do it when driven normally. We average 20/22 mpg in town and about 26/28 highway and if we lock CC on 65 mph we get into the 32 mpg range which is easy to live with now days.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:19 pm

RFCRD wrote:

BTW, If you love to burn oil the CRD will be the perfect vehicle for you.

Yes, if your dealer changes your oil they will charge you $90.00 + easily, you will love to burn oil
Yes, if your the unlucky one to get a CRD with weeping turbo seals, you love to burn oil

BVCRD wrote:

Oh come on now! You know that most CRD's are trouble free like mine is.....at least 2006 models.

Just as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", "Trouble free" is in the interpretation of the owner.

Most owners who purchased diesels have the mentality of "turn the key and go". When costs as a dealer oil change set them back $100 a pop, they began to quiver. Followed by CAC hoses ripping, EGR's failing, EGR Flow valves failing these gasoline acclimated owners could only take so much before they started dumping the CRD back on the used car lot at the dealers and went back to a gasser.

The true diesel drivers and wrench heads held out to work out the kinks from a new engine platform by DCX. However, this group was utterly disgusted by dealers untrained and unprepared to service the CRD. Many on this forum know more than the "Level 4 Diesel Certified" techs. So met with poor dealer service, inability to get parts in a timely manner, and DCX's unwillingness to effectively support either the dealership or the owner, this group became disenchanted with the CRD product. They also became keenly aware, that the issues on the CRD were the results of bad design and cost cutting measures.

So what your seeing on the used car lot now, are mostly the gasser crowd turning in their CRD's at under 20Kmiles. The next wave you will see are the diesel drivers and wrench heads turning theirs in as warranties run out.

I'm one of those that love to tinker and wrench as it gets me into the garage and away from MRS. DZL_LOU for a while. Now, if my anatomy was bit by a repair that was not under warranty or extended warranty, then depending on personal economics choices the CRD may go to the used car lot.

drharv · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:26 pm

RFCRD why would you put up with a vehicle that you hate. I see in your signature line that you have done some modifications that indicate you would like it to last a long time. Most people who have a vehicle that they hate leave it alone and trade it as soon as they are able; if you hate it so much, trade it.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:33 pm

DZL_LOU wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

BTW, If you love to burn oil the CRD will be the perfect vehicle for you.

Yes, if your dealer changes your oil they will charge you $90.00 + easily, you will love to burn oil
Yes, if your the unlucky one to get a CRD with weeping turbo seals, you love to burn oil

BVCRD wrote:

Oh come on now! You know that most CRD's are trouble free like mine is.....at least 2006 models.

Just as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", "Trouble free" is in the interpretation of the owner.

Most owners who purchased diesels have the mentality of "turn the key and go". When costs as a dealer oil change set them back $100 a pop, they began to quiver. Followed by CAC hoses ripping, EGR's failing, EGR Flow valves failing these gasoline acclimated owners could only take so much before they started dumping the CRD back on the used car lot at the dealers and went back to a gasser.

The true diesel drivers and wrench heads held out to work out the kinks from a new engine platform by DCX. However, this group was utterly disgusted by dealers untrained and unprepared to service the CRD. Many on this forum know more than the "Level 4 Diesel Certified" techs. So met with poor dealer service, inability to get parts in a timely manner, and DCX's unwillingness to effectively support either the dealership or the owner, this group became disenchanted with the CRD product. They also became keenly aware, that the issues on the CRD were the results of bad design and cost cutting measures.

So what your seeing on the used car lot now, are mostly the gasser crowd turning in their CRD's at under 20Kmiles. The next wave you will see are the diesel drivers and wrench heads turning theirs in as warranties run out.

I'm one of those that love to tinker and wrench as it gets me into the garage and away from MRS. DZL_LOU for a while. Now, if my anatomy was bit by a repair that was not under warranty or extended warranty, then depending on personal economics choices the CRD may go to the used car lot.

The first thing my sales guy did after we signed was take me back and introduce me to the CRD tech. He was fairly new to CRDs, but has been a diesel head for 20 some years. I have a CAC hose coming, but I don't claim that as a bad thing that turns me off. Just a replacement item that I was glad that I got under warranty. I wouldn't dream of taking my CRD to the dealer for simple oil changes or diff fluid or fuel filter. I know that doing those things aren't everone's cup of tea. This isn't really a tinker kind of rig. Oh you can go out and think you are tinking, but in reality, besides regular maintanance, there is very little that we can do or needs doing.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:36 pm

drharv wrote:

RFCRD why would you put up with a vehicle that you hate. I see in your signature line that you have done some modifications that indicate you would like it to last a long time. Most people who have a vehicle that they hate leave it alone and trade it as soon as they are able; if you hate it so much, trade it.

Exactly. I am biassed because I haven't had to experience the pain of mechanical failures like a few have. Until that time, I'm going to go on loving the thing.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:42 pm

BVCRD wrote:

Exactly. I am biassed because I haven't had to experience the pain of mechanical failures like a few have. Until that time, I'm going to go on loving the thing.

I'm very happy for your ownership experience. I hope your "biased" instead of "bi-assed" :shock:

in the same way when your approaching 40K miles.

Some posters like vtdog, also have gone to the 40K mark with relatively little issues. I think most of my bad juju with the CRD is behind me.

If you check some of my pics from last year on the CRD egr, egr flow control valve and CAC hoses you'll see I like doing much of the repairs myself, i.e. "tinkering".

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:54 pm

DZL_LOU wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

Exactly. I am biassed because I haven't had to experience the pain of mechanical failures like a few have. Until that time, I'm going to go on loving the thing.

I'm very happy for your ownership experience. I hope your "biased" instead of "bi-assed" :shock:

in the same way when your approaching 40K miles.

Some posters like vtdog, also have gone to the 40K mark with relatively little issues. I think most of my bad juju with the CRD is behind me.

If you check some of my pics from last year on the CRD egr, egr flow control valve and CAC hoses you'll see I like doing much of the repairs myself, i.e. "tinkering".

That's cool. I like the feeling of accomplishment in doing the required service myself as well. I am having them put on the CAC because it is free. Can't beat that.

Unless things goes down hill very quickly, I just don't see it. I have often been amazed as to how many on here and the other forum have had issues, while the rest of us haven't had so much as a hick up. I am speaking about the EGR and TC issues. I can only come to the conclusion that the 2006 model was built with upgraded parts. The 2005's that have had trouble did so in short order and you knew right off if your's was FUBAR'D or not. My thinking is that any of those issues would have raised their ugly head by now if they were going to at all.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:55 pm

BVCRD wrote:

The first thing my sales guy did after we signed was take me back and introduce me to the CRD tech. He was fairly new to CRDs, but has been a diesel head for 20 some years. I have a CAC hose coming, but I don't claim that as a bad thing that turns me off. Just a replacement item that I was glad that I got under warranty. I wouldn't dream of taking my CRD to the dealer for simple oil changes or diff fluid or fuel filter. I know that doing those things aren't everone's cup of tea. This isn't really a tinker kind of rig. Oh you can go out and think you are tinking, but in reality, besides regular maintanance, there is very little that we can do or needs doing.

The CRD has been about average as far as any early problems that needed fixing and has been less problematic then some others like our Toyota Echo, 1 or 2 Fords and one VW TDI in the first year of ownership. Most new cars if you take to the dealer for the regular upkeep you will find are just as expensive as the CRD, such as a friend that spends couple hundred every time his Avalon goes in for service and has been set back $600 on one ocassion.

Myself as long as I can change the oil & oilfilter, fuel filter, air filter and do some other minor things like clean the boost sensor then I will drive a car. When I get to where I can't do that, it's time to head to the nursing home, that our my disposable income has gone up a lot more then currently available.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:38 pm

drharv wrote:

RFCRD why would you put up with a vehicle that you hate. I see in your signature line that you have done some modifications that indicate you would like it to last a long time. Most people who have a vehicle that they hate leave it alone and trade it as soon as they are able; if you hate it so much, trade it.

$$$

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:54 pm

RFCRD wrote:

drharv wrote:

RFCRD why would you put up with a vehicle that you hate. I see in your signature line that you have done some modifications that indicate you would like it to last a long time. Most people who have a vehicle that they hate leave it alone and trade it as soon as they are able; if you hate it so much, trade it.

$$$

Well, if you are like most who buy new, you have another year or two before you break out into the black.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:23 pm

BVCRD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

drharv wrote:

RFCRD why would you put up with a vehicle that you hate. I see in your signature line that you have done some modifications that indicate you would like it to last a long time. Most people who have a vehicle that they hate leave it alone and trade it as soon as they are able; if you hate it so much, trade it.

$$$

Well, if you are like most who buy new, you have another year or two before you break out into the black.

Seeing how the financial damage is already done, just stalling for time for several things: Aftermarket parts availability & deeper knowledge about fixing this vehicle vs. reaching a break-even point in this vehicle & gaining knowledge about several new truck models which are likely replacements. I'm going to be in limbo for a few months as it's too soon to pull the trigger to get rid of this.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Bottom line for me: 1 repair (egr) at 10k was the only problem that caused me to make special trip to dealer. All other tsb/recalls were done at my convienience during normal maint times. So, in essence I have had 1 repair that took extra time in 2 years and 42k miles. Not bad for a first model year car. I have also started the CRD in temps from -12-100F without additives.

In addition, I am generally getting 40% better mpg than with my old XTERRA so even with diesel being 10-15% more than regular I am still way ahead.

However, if every squeak, rattle, burp, or bump bothers you, don't get the Jeep. It does have its quirks which can mostly be ignored, but will drive a weenie wild.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:11 pm

vtdog wrote:

Bottom line for me: 1 repair (egr) at 10k was the only problem that caused me to make special trip to dealer. All other tsb/recalls were done at my convienience during normal maint times. So, in essence I have had 1 repair that took extra time in 2 years and 42k miles. Not bad for a first model year car. I have also started the CRD in temps from -12-100F without additives.

In addition, I am generally getting 40% better mpg than with my old XTERRA so even with diesel being 10-15% more than regular I am still way ahead.

However, if every squeak, rattle, burp, or bump bothers you, don't get the Jeep. It does have its quirks which can mostly be ignored, but will drive a weenie wild.

It would be interesting to look at all your posts and determine a percentage in which you resort to name calling. It is pretty juvenile really.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:31 pm

vtdog wrote:

Bottom line for me: 1 repair (egr) at 10k was the only problem that caused me to make special trip to dealer. All other tsb/recalls were done at my convienience during normal maint times. So, in essence I have had 1 repair that took extra time in 2 years and 42k miles. Not bad for a first model year car. I have also started the CRD in temps from -12-100F without additives.

In addition, I am generally getting 40% better mpg than with my old XTERRA so even with diesel being 10-15% more than regular I am still way ahead.

However, if every squeak, rattle, burp, or bump bothers you, don't get the Jeep. It does have its quirks which can mostly be ignored, but will drive a weenie wild.

It wasn't a personal attack, and I sort of chuckled at it. Some say weanie, some say anal, some use other terms. The point is in the way we get the point across and I think you drove it home.

Kniggit · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:50 pm

I just checked the "book" value on ours and its the same that I payed for it, although I only have 2,000 miles. So I could back out now and not come out without losing anything but the sales tax. If there was a way I could have bought a pair of reliable used ones with 20,000 or less on them I would have, but they just don't exist. I am really short on the mileage and have many to go before I should have any issues, but i bought mine even after I read all the posts on this forum, and I'd still do it again.

K

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:54 pm

Kniggit wrote:

I just checked the "book" value on ours and its the same that I payed for it, although I only have 2,000 miles. So I could back out now and not come out without losing anything but the sales tax. If there was a way I could have bought a pair of reliable used ones with 20,000 or less on them I would have, but they just don't exist. I am really short on the mileage and have many to go before I should have any issues, but i bought mine even after I read all the posts on this forum, and I'd still do it again.

K

I would, and did too. I was looking at an Escape Hybrid and this one caught my eye. My uncle bought a hybrid and is about ready to put a gun to his head from all the troubles he is having. Not really, but he is freaking.

noob Sould I pull the trigger or not.

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