LOST JEEPS :: View topic - New Guy and Other Stuff

Hey everybody...new to the forum...2005 Liberty CRD Sport.

Just a quick question...I was looking through the "good" dealer list and didn't notice one in my area. Does anybody have any experience with a dealership in the Plano, TX / Dallas area? I went to Huffines Jeep in Plano to have my ball joint recall done and was advised against having the F37 done. I don't know whether or not they were just being up front about the recall not addressing the issues it is supposed to, or if they just didn't want to undertake the project. So, any input would be great.

Thanks.

(I've been going to Bluebonnet in New Braunfels - long way from Plano - but they seem knowledgeable about CRD's and regularily service several - they' doing the F37 now so I'll let you know how that goes.)

There are several folks on the forum that regularly run B100 - and I don't think they have any problems - the big issue with a Biodiesel is the quality - since it's fairly unregulated you do need to know your suppliers.

I am going to state this for the record even though I know its not going to be a popular statement with the BD crowd, however a good friend of mine was one of the engineers on a variant of the VM Motori CRD that is in our Jeeps(believe it or not there is a military version) and he warned me to stay away from BD as much as possible, and do not exceed B20(prefferably B5 if you have to). They did a lot of long haul testing on these and with B100 in them the lifespan of the engines was roughly half.

He said the primary problem is that BD is a solvant, not a lubricant, and as a result you end up with the same kinds of damage that gasoline puts on an engine over time, and in some cases worse since diesel engines are not engineered with a solvant as a fuel source in mind.

This is apparantly the reason Chrysler won't support more than B5 officially, its a way of appearing to be enviro friendly, but absolves them of the liability from people who bought a diesel and expected the typical diesel lifespan out of it, but run BD and as a result do not get close to it.

Author:	Loosehead [ Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	New Guy and Other Stuff
Hey everybody...new to the forum...2005 Liberty CRD Sport. Just a quick question...I was looking through the "good" dealer list and didn't notice one in my area. Does anybody have any experience with a dealership in the Plano, TX / Dallas area? I went to Huffines Jeep in Plano to have my ball joint recall done and was advised against having the F37 done. I don't know whether or not they were just being up front about the recall not addressing the issues it is supposed to, or if they just didn't want to undertake the project. So, any input would be great. Thanks.

Author:	Loosehead [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Sorry to bump my own thread, but I had a question and figured I'd post it here instead of starting a new one... When my vehicle is idling, there is a clicking noise that is quite noticable in traffic or somewhere where the sound can bounce back...not so much at other times. I've never owned a diesel, so I'm not sure if this is merely a normal CRD sound, or if it is the dreaded metal pieces that lead to needing the F37. The clicking is consistent, and not erratic like I would imagine random bits of metal to sound like. Any thoughts?

Author:	spoonplugger1 [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:
My CRD doesn't shudder, so I've been in no hurry to get F37 done. I was taught to only mess with a diesel when it told you it needed attention, if you wanted them to last. It's worked for 35 years now.

Author:	ATXKJ [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:
There are actually several clicks that are standard Diesel and then some non-standard ones that are Torque converter I've never heard the Torque converter rattle so I'm not certain what it sounds like, I'm assuming it changes as the transmission is shifted - none of my noises do. I've asked the dealer on one of others and they said it's normal- I'm guessing the fuel pump - high pitched ticking. (I've been going to Bluebonnet in New Braunfels - long way from Plano - but they seem knowledgeable about CRD's and regularily service several - they' doing the F37 now so I'll let you know how that goes.)

Author:	no-blue-screen [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Guy and Other Stuff
Loosehead wrote: Hey everybody...new to the forum...2005 Liberty CRD Sport. Just a quick question...I was looking through the "good" dealer list and didn't notice one in my area. Does anybody have any experience with a dealership in the Plano, TX / Dallas area? I went to Huffines Jeep in Plano to have my ball joint recall done and was advised against having the F37 done. I don't know whether or not they were just being up front about the recall not addressing the issues it is supposed to, or if they just didn't want to undertake the project. So, any input would be great. Thanks. Welcome! Well, like others have said, some dealers just don't want to undertake the F37 because sometimes it can lead to someone bringing the car back ...especially when they don't do the job right. Did you put the last 8-digits of your VIN in at the jeep.com website? Does the F37 show up there? It was my understanding a dealer wasn't permitted to sell a vehicle that had open recalls on it.

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Author:	Loosehead [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Guy and Other Stuff
[/quote]Welcome! Well, like others have said, some dealers just don't want to undertake the F37 because sometimes it can lead to someone bringing the car back ...especially when they don't do the job right. Did you put the last 8-digits of your VIN in at the jeep.com website? Does the F37 show up there? It was my understanding a dealer wasn't permitted to sell a vehicle that had open recalls on it.[/quote] I actually purchased the vehicle at Carmax and both the Ball Joint recall and F37 had not been performed (searched on Jeep website). I don't know if they are held to the same standards as a regular dealer...I was a little ticked off at first, but having the option of not doing the F37 based on what some have said on here isn't too bad.

Author:	Loosehead [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:
ATXKJ wrote: (I've been going to Bluebonnet in New Braunfels - long way from Plano - but they seem knowledgeable about CRD's and regularily service several - they' doing the F37 now so I'll let you know how that goes.) Yep, New Braunfels is a bit of a drive. But we do get down to that area every now and then...I'll have to remember Bluebonnet...you never know. I see your location listed as Austin. Do you ever run biodiesel? Austin has loads of places to get it...sadly, here in Dallas/Plano, there are 2 stations and they're both too far away to be practical.

Author:	ATXKJ [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:
B20 is easy to get - there's a BioWillie station close, and all of the Shell stations now have stickers - 'may contain up to 20% biodiesel' B20 seems to run well - lose about 1 mpg but smells better. There's even a listing for a station that has B100 - but I haven't tried it. There are several folks on the forum that regularly run B100 - and I don't think they have any problems - the big issue with a Biodiesel is the quality - since it's fairly unregulated you do need to know your suppliers. There was also an eary post about a dealer denying warranty because of Biodiesel, officially they only allow 5%. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=6933&highlight=biodiesel+warranty and clearly Biodiesel didn't have anything to do with the problems.

Author:	dgeist [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:
ATXKJ wrote: There are several folks on the forum that regularly run B100 - and I don't think they have any problems - the big issue with a Biodiesel is the quality - since it's fairly unregulated you do need to know your suppliers. Yep, definitely make sure your supplier's fuel has been tested (and passed) and be careful about things like spillover with high concentrations. You'll dull your paint if you let it sit there. I run B100 as often as I can in the warm months. My only issues have been gelling at lower temperatures when I used B100 instead of B20 (supid, yes...). Amazingly, Biofuels do indeed stop flowing right at about the point that lab testing says they do Hooray for powerservice, though. Their additive saved my butt this week and I started right up from 25 degrees this morning with about B50 (I did have the block heater plugged in overnight).

Author:	Reflex [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I am going to state this for the record even though I know its not going to be a popular statement with the BD crowd, however a good friend of mine was one of the engineers on a variant of the VM Motori CRD that is in our Jeeps(believe it or not there is a military version) and he warned me to stay away from BD as much as possible, and do not exceed B20(prefferably B5 if you have to). They did a lot of long haul testing on these and with B100 in them the lifespan of the engines was roughly half. He said the primary problem is that BD is a solvant, not a lubricant, and as a result you end up with the same kinds of damage that gasoline puts on an engine over time, and in some cases worse since diesel engines are not engineered with a solvant as a fuel source in mind. This is apparantly the reason Chrysler won't support more than B5 officially, its a way of appearing to be enviro friendly, but absolves them of the liability from people who bought a diesel and expected the typical diesel lifespan out of it, but run BD and as a result do not get close to it.

Author:	offroadsubaru [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Reflex wrote: I am going to state this for the record even though I know its not going to be a popular statement with the BD crowd, however a good friend of mine was one of the engineers on a variant of the VM Motori CRD that is in our Jeeps(believe it or not there is a military version) and he warned me to stay away from BD as much as possible, and do not exceed B20(prefferably B5 if you have to). They did a lot of long haul testing on these and with B100 in them the lifespan of the engines was roughly half. He said the primary problem is that BD is a solvant, not a lubricant, and as a result you end up with the same kinds of damage that gasoline puts on an engine over time, and in some cases worse since diesel engines are not engineered with a solvant as a fuel source in mind. This is apparantly the reason Chrysler won't support more than B5 officially, its a way of appearing to be enviro friendly, but absolves them of the liability from people who bought a diesel and expected the typical diesel lifespan out of it, but run BD and as a result do not get close to it. This would seem to hold true for all modern common-rail engines. However, is the implication just that the 2.8 liter VM Motori engine is particularly unfriendly to BD (when compared with, say, the 1.9 liter VW TDI engine)?

Author:	Reflex [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:29 am ]
Post subject:
In his opinion, yes it would affect modern CRD's in general. However he is careful not to state that as a fact on anything he has not personally tested. In the case of the engine in our Jeep however he has seen it with his own eyes, and devised the tests himself while measuring the result.

Author:	dgeist [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:46 am ]
Post subject:
That's really intesting information. Do you happen to know if your friend has any data on fuel sources, lubricity information, etc? There's the obvious "solvents break down things" side, but there's also the "Viton rubber and similar products are relatively impervious to that type of solvent" point as well. I'd be interested to know what the actual engine manufacturer's hard data says (as opposed to DC, which I would expect to be slanted by many factors). Dan

Author:	jinstall [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:04 am ]
Post subject:
Reflex wrote: I am going to state this for the record even though I know its not going to be a popular statement with the BD crowd, however a good friend of mine was one of the engineers on a variant of the VM Motori CRD that is in our Jeeps(believe it or not there is a military version) and he warned me to stay away from BD as much as possible, and do not exceed B20(prefferably B5 if you have to). They did a lot of long haul testing on these and with B100 in them the lifespan of the engines was roughly half. He said the primary problem is that BD is a solvant, not a lubricant, and as a result you end up with the same kinds of damage that gasoline puts on an engine over time, and in some cases worse since diesel engines are not engineered with a solvant as a fuel source in mind. This is apparantly the reason Chrysler won't support more than B5 officially, its a way of appearing to be enviro friendly, but absolves them of the liability from people who bought a diesel and expected the typical diesel lifespan out of it, but run BD and as a result do not get close to it. And what is with the Biodiesel that is used in Europe? There is only one kind.

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Author:	Reflex [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:
I'll have a chat with him and see if I can get some references or writeups on this. I do not consider myself an expert on the topic, but I do have some connections, both him and my gf's father, who is an engineer with Chrysler. One thing to consider though is that the advent of Biofuels(in high concentrations, not the 10% ethanol or B5 blends), even in Europe, is fairly recent. Long term studies of thier effects on diesel engines have not really been conducted. Even if they reduce the life of the engine by 50%, that may not be a problem for many people, who replace their vehicle every 100-150k miles anyways. It is a problem for those of us like myself who drive vehicles until they can no longer start, and who bought diesel hoping for 500k-1M mile vehicles, especially if we buy off the used market(no way to know if the previous owner was using BD).