WARNING: New ECM Flashes appear to Reduce Engine Performance

sbohner · **Posted:** Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Hi BVCRD,

I think what alljeep was getting at was that your CRD was build in December 2005 with the detuned software already present (since according to you, the new ECM software was introduced in November of 2005). :idea:

Hence, by doing the F31 and F37, you wouldn't notice any difference because there would not be any if the detuned ECM software was already present. This explains why you couldn't understand why those of us with earlier ECM software were noticing the difference.

I hope that this is helpful.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:17 pm

sbohner wrote:

Hi BVCRD,

I think what alljeep was getting at was that your CRD was build in December 2005 with the detuned software already present (since according to you, the new ECM software was introduced in November of 2005). :idea:

Hence, by doing the F31 and F37, you wouldn't notice any difference because there would not be any if the detuned ECM software was already present. This explains why you couldn't understand why those of us with earlier ECM software were noticing the difference.

I hope that this is helpful.

Well, it does but I understand all of that. I was thinking that our late model 2006's had not come with the reduced torque and that according to tech rob92 on the other forum, the TC in ours was of a new-better design. If mine came with that, then what did they re-flash? I went buy the Nov 2, 2005 date because that seems to be the cut off date for the F37. And while we are on the subject, what's all this talk of the torque output being crap after the F37? If in fact mine is now under that spell, this thing still rocks. It kicks butt!

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

sbohner wrote:

Hi Reflex,

When was your 2006 Liberty manufactured. The detuned version of the ECM software was introduced into the product line I think in August or October of 2005 if I remember right. Perhaps this might explain it. All I know is that mine is certainly noticeable.

I purchased mine in January of 06. I have no idea what its build date was(I'll check when I get home, carpooled with the boss today). Its possible I had it from the beginning I suppose, although I could have swore I saw it on a service receipt around June. Could have been something else though.

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:31 pm

BVCRD wrote:

sbohner wrote:

Hi BVCRD,

I think what alljeep was getting at was that your CRD was build in December 2005 with the detuned software already present (since according to you, the new ECM software was introduced in November of 2005). :idea:

Hence, by doing the F31 and F37, you wouldn't notice any difference because there would not be any if the detuned ECM software was already present. This explains why you couldn't understand why those of us with earlier ECM software were noticing the difference.

I hope that this is helpful.

Well, it does but I understand all of that. I was thinking that our late model 2006's had not come with the reduced torque and that according to tech rob92 on the other forum, the TC in ours was of a new-better design. If mine came with that, then what did they re-flash? I went buy the Nov 2, 2005 date because that seems to be the cut off date for the F37. And while we are on the subject, what's all this talk of the torque output being crap after the F37? If in fact mine is now under that spell, this thing still rocks. It kicks butt!

I wish you and I could sit down and draw a flow chart for all the TSB data I have stashed away at home. I was REALLY into this analysis in late 2005, early 2006 but have let my mind forget a bunch of it. Even somewhere on this board we analyzed not only release dates, but the vehicle build dates affected, the supposed improvements, ect, for all of these.

Everyone has been piece mealed and strung along up until F37, so the cut-off dates for F37 themselves could change how I thought about the previous TSBs.

What if you had the newer torque converter, and a partial newer set of software instructions installed, but not the full monty 18-023-06 or later? Just too many variable to guess what happened at the factory. Maybe I'll get back into this and try to draw it out at home....

I know the 18-008-06 that was most likly the reflash you got was for a specific build date of 2006 (early) models to bring them up to date with the newer ones and I think there is an overlap between the build date qualifications for 18-008-06 and F37 for the early 2006ers...

We need to know exactly what TSB they gave you, and I need to dig out all my stuff at home and start cross referencing, as most of the stuff on the alldata website for the older TSBs is no longer online.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:34 pm

alljeep wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

sbohner wrote:

Hi BVCRD,

I think what alljeep was getting at was that your CRD was build in December 2005 with the detuned software already present (since according to you, the new ECM software was introduced in November of 2005). :idea:

Hence, by doing the F31 and F37, you wouldn't notice any difference because there would not be any if the detuned ECM software was already present. This explains why you couldn't understand why those of us with earlier ECM software were noticing the difference.

I hope that this is helpful.

Well, it does but I understand all of that. I was thinking that our late model 2006's had not come with the reduced torque and that according to tech rob92 on the other forum, the TC in ours was of a new-better design. If mine came with that, then what did they re-flash? I went buy the Nov 2, 2005 date because that seems to be the cut off date for the F37. And while we are on the subject, what's all this talk of the torque output being crap after the F37? If in fact mine is now under that spell, this thing still rocks. It kicks butt!

I wish you and I could sit down and draw a flow chart for all the TSB data I have stashed away at home. I was REALLY into this analysis in late 2005, early 2006 but have let my mind forget a bunch of it. Even somewhere on this board we analyzed not only release dates, but the vehicle build dates affected, the supposed improvements, ect, for all of these.

Everyone has been piece mealed and strung along up until F37, so the cut-off dates for F37 themselves could change how I thought about the previous TSBs.

What if you had the newer torque converter, and a partial newer set of software instructions installed, but not the full monty 18-023-06 or later? Just too many variable to guess what happened at the factory. Maybe I'll get back into this and try to draw it out at home....

I know the 18-008-06 that was most likly the reflash you got was for a specific build date of 2006 (early) models to bring them up to date with the newer ones and I think there is an overlap between the build date qualifications for 18-008-06 and F37 for the early 2006ers...

We need to know exactly what TSB they gave you, and I need to dig out all my stuff at home and start cross referencing, as most of the stuff on the alldata website for the older TSBs is no longer online.

I'll look when my wife gets it home tonight. The numbers that they wrote on the new sticker aren't any TSB number but some other group of numbers that mean nothing to me.

sbohner · **Posted:** Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:17 pm

Those of you who have had the TSBs that have involved ECM reflashes, have you noticed if the TCMs adaptive learning program has had to reprofile your driving patterns after the flash? In otherwords, is there a detection mechanism that tells the TCM to start the learning all over again?

I mentioned this in another post as part of an idea, but thought it would be good to get more specific feedback from this thread as it pertains to the ECM directly. Anyway, please let us know what you think!

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:00 pm

The answer is yes, it does have to relearn settings when it is flashed. The same applies if the battery is disconnected for 15 or 20 mins or more. I also posted this in the other thread.

sbohner · **Posted:** Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:13 pm

Thanks no-blue-screen! That's just what I need to know.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:56 pm

To get back to you, the white sticker has a PIN # that is scribbled and hard to read. It also has a "our code" and that number is 60039. Not a lot of help, I know. Did you try my idea of disconnecting your batter to get a fresh start? You want to pull on the headlamps to rid the system of any current still hanging around.

tomasnc · **Posted:** Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:27 pm

I had the F37 performed and the power loss is extreme.

I used to be able to pull out onto a street full of traffic and not worry but getting popped... my CRD would jump up and smoke the tires!!!!!

Not now, the hesitation sucks.

I guess chipping is the next option.

TP

sbohner · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:53 pm

I was thinking what the right strategy would be for someone who hasn't had the ECM flash yet and want to avoid it. The following is a starting list of what might work.

1. When taking your CRD in for ANY service at the dealer, ensure that you give specific instructions to NOT flash any control modules on the vehicle without first getting your approval. Most reputable service centers will advise you before conducting any modifications to the vehicle.

2. Talk with your service manager in advance about your wishes regarding reprogramming the ECM, TCM, etc. You may want to express that you are not in favor of changes to the performance of your vehicle (either positive or negative) until there is enough evidence that there will be no unanticipated side effects.

3. It is a good policy with car service organizations to insist on their getting approval from you for any actions on your vehicle. This goes even for routine maintenance actions. I thought that I had this agreement with my dealer's service manager. However, this was not remembered when the deed was done.

Anyway, I hope that this helps. Does anyone have other suggestions? What about when confronted with a situation where something needs to be fixed where the ECM or TCM reprogram is required?

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:11 pm

sbohner wrote:

I was thinking what the right strategy would be for someone who hasn't had the ECM flash yet and want to avoid it. The following is a starting list of what might work.

1. When taking your CRD in for ANY service at the dealer, ensure that you give specific instructions to NOT flash any control modules on the vehicle without first getting your approval. Most reputable service centers will advise you before conducting any modifications to the vehicle.

2. Talk with your service manager in advance about your wishes regarding reprogramming the ECM, TCM, etc. You may want to express that you are not in favor of changes to the performance of your vehicle (either positive or negative) until there is enough evidence that there will be no unanticipated side effects.

3. It is a good policy with car service organizations to insist on their getting approval from you for any actions on your vehicle. This goes even for routine maintenance actions. I thought that I had this agreement with my dealer's service manager. However, this was not remembered when the deed was done.

Anyway, I hope that this helps. Does anyone have other suggestions? What about when confronted with a situation where something needs to be fixed where the ECM or TCM reprogram is required?

Well, it could be all lumped into the same reflash package. If that were the case, you may be out of luck.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:33 pm

RFCRD wrote:

macd wrote:

If in fact there is a reduction in power by this flash, not only is it a questionable business practice, but highly illegal. The problem is can anyone prove it??

I sent a message to my lawyer for advice on this subject. Will let you know what he believes is worth persuing.

Bumping this back to current. My lawyer responded, recommends sending the complaint card from the back of the owner's manual to start the arbitration process and ask for a buy-back. It's the cheapest way to proceed before paying him to get involved. Let DCX respond to the power reduction complaint & buy-back request and take it from there.

sbohner · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:47 pm

Thanks for the good advice RFCRD! I returned from my trip to Baltimore and the testing of the CRD over a longer distance. The results are posted on http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 2&start=45 The short answer is that the performance and mileage are down significantly.

The latest story from the District Service Manager (conveyed through the local dealer's Service Manager) is that EPA rules/policies prevent them from returning the CRD ECM back to the earlier configuration. This appears to be another leg on the delay and denial road to frustration. :roll:

I looked and do not see any policies that would prevent them from making this change. Do you know of any? :?:

WARNING: New ECM Flashes appear to Reduce Engine Performance

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