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Dyno tomorrow
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18075		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  AZScout [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Dyno tomorrow
I'm getting my Jeep dynoed tomorrow with a F31 and a F37 TCM. Anything I should try out or look out for? I'm running it with a SP Diesel as well.

Thanks!
Author:  BVCRD [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
It would have been nice to have the figures from before the F37.
Author:  AZScout [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have both the F31 TCM and the F37 TCM and will be switching off during the runs, but true,... it would be nice to have a completely stock pre-F31 TCM to run.
Author:  Endurance [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Awesome, I defenitely wanna know what the SP Diesel module does to our rig!
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:10 am ]
Post subject: 
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?
Author:  alljeep [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.
Author:  BVCRD [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:45 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.



Well that may explain alot. I had the 18-023-06 done on mine when it was barely a month old as a preventitive measure. Never knew they were almost one in the same. If true, I can say with ALL CERTAINTY, that I never once knew there was any less power or torque reduction as a result. It didn't alter my fuel economy either. AND, I have towed a 3000# brakeless trailer over several 10,500-11,000 foot passes too. What's the big deal?
Author:  alljeep [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.



Well that may explain alot. I had the 18-023-06 done on mine when it was barely a month old as a preventitive measure. Never knew they were almost one in the same. If true, I can say with ALL CERTAINTY, that I never once knew there was any less power or torque reduction as a result. It didn't alter my fuel economy either. AND, I have towed a 3000# brakeless trailer over several 10,500-11,000 foot passes too. What's the big deal?


I never said it was a big deal. My main issue has been beyond horrible customer service at dealerships - especially for F37 - they left my Jeep all banged up, leaking, ect. in addition to keeping it for 6 days when promised after 1 day - plus the whole loaner car fight...

I can tell folks that after driving mine 14,000 miles with no torque reduction software that I noticed a huge difference in the 'hole-shot' performance that I was used to, but everything was the same or better at freeway speeds. I used to really accelerate from a stop light starting at 1500rpm, now it just sits there until it winds up to 3000rpm and I've lost the ability to "smoke" most vehicles off the line. Just an enjoyment factor that was taken away from me.

It is frusterating to know that the 545RFE has now been redesigned for model year 2008 vehicles to handle way more torque, and as such, this loss of 'hole shot' would not be necessary if this redesign were available to us.
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is great. Can't wait to see the results.
Author:  BVCRD [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.



Well that may explain alot. I had the 18-023-06 done on mine when it was barely a month old as a preventitive measure. Never knew they were almost one in the same. If true, I can say with ALL CERTAINTY, that I never once knew there was any less power or torque reduction as a result. It didn't alter my fuel economy either. AND, I have towed a 3000# brakeless trailer over several 10,500-11,000 foot passes too. What's the big deal?


I never said it was a big deal. My main issue has been beyond horrible customer service at dealerships - especially for F37 - they left my Jeep all banged up, leaking, ect. in addition to keeping it for 6 days when promised after 1 day - plus the whole loaner car fight...

I can tell folks that after driving mine 14,000 miles with no torque reduction software that I noticed a huge difference in the 'hole-shot' performance that I was used to, but everything was the same or better at freeway speeds. I used to really accelerate from a stop light starting at 1500rpm, now it just sits there until it winds up to 3000rpm and I've L.O.S.T. the ability to "smoke" most vehicles off the line. Just an enjoyment factor that was taken away from me.

It is frusterating to know that the 545RFE has now been redesigned for model year 2008 vehicles to handle way more torque, and as such, this loss of 'hole shot' would not be necessary if this redesign were available to us.




I didn't mean it personally towards you. There are "others" who by the sounds of them are ready to put a gun to their heads over this thing. I don't do "hole shots" with mine so maybe that is the reason I didn't experience any difference. It still does everything I want it to do and more.
Author:  alljeep [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
This is great. Can't wait to see the results.


The results will be useless. You need to be pre F37, pre F31, and pre 18-023-06 and quite possibly pre 18-009-06 to get an accurate difference between the current state of affairs and the factory settings that pre November 2005 people had...

It gets tricky with all the TSB and recalls that there have been as each was released at a specific and close to one another date. I've been there since almost the beginning so if I had my folder at home I could pull them all out and check the release dates.

TSB 18-009-06 Released 3/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
TSB 18-023-06 Released 7/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
F31 Emission Recall Released approx 8/14/06, yet I was not subject to this due to 18-023-06.
F37 Released 12/01/06, I was not subject to the reflash part due again to 18-023-06.

My hole shot was gone for certain after 18-023-06 and I was not subject to F31 that was released an entire month later due to this TSB. Hence, any F31 CRD is already de-tuned just like an F37. I verified that my software from 18-023-06 (7/14/06) was the same as in F37, hence I was not reflashed this past December when I had F37 done.
Author:  alljeep [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
BVCRD wrote:
I didn't mean it personally towards you. There are "others" who by the sounds of them are ready to put a gun to their heads over this thing. I don't do "hole shots" with mine so maybe that is the reason I didn't experience any difference. It still does everything I want it to do and more.


No offense taken. I would just really like to know what reflash was given to you in February of 2006 because the newer software was not available until March at the earliest, except to those that had it pre-installed in the factory starting in November of 2005.

I suspect you were already de-tuned from the factory, but I can't say for all certainty - just a high probability. Also, I'm running larger tires, so any loss of hole-shot performance might be much more noticeable for me than others...
Author:  BVCRD [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
BVCRD wrote:
I didn't mean it personally towards you. There are "others" who by the sounds of them are ready to put a gun to their heads over this thing. I don't do "hole shots" with mine so maybe that is the reason I didn't experience any difference. It still does everything I want it to do and more.


No offense taken. I would just really like to know what reflash was given to you in February of 2006 because the newer software was not available until March at the earliest, except to those that had it pre-installed in the factory starting in November of 2005.

I suspect you were already de-tuned from the factory, but I can't say for all certainty - just a high probability. Also, I'm running larger tires, so any loss of hole-shot performance might be much more noticeable for me than others...




It was in Late March of '06. I bought the Jeep around Feb 23 2006. The flash had just came out at that time. Could have been the 18-009-06 though. Not good with numbers. I almost had to bribe the tech to do it, and even then, he almost fried the CM. I got a new white sticker put on the CM that is just behind the battery.
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
no-blue-screen wrote:
This is great. Can't wait to see the results.


The results will be useless. You need to be pre F37, pre F31, and pre 18-023-06 and quite possibly pre 18-009-06 to get an accurate difference between the current state of affairs and the factory settings that pre November 2005 people had...

It gets tricky with all the TSB and recalls that there have been as each was released at a specific and close to one another date. I've been there since almost the beginning so if I had my folder at home I could pull them all out and check the release dates.

TSB 18-009-06 Released 3/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
TSB 18-023-06 Released 7/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
F31 Emission Recall Released approx 8/14/06, yet I was not subject to this due to 18-023-06.
F37 Released 12/01/06, I was not subject to the reflash part due again to 18-023-06.

My hole shot was gone for certain after 18-023-06 and I was not subject to F31 that was released an entire month later due to this TSB. Hence, any F31 CRD is already de-tuned just like an F37. I verified that my software from 18-023-06 (7/14/06) was the same as in F37, hence I was not reflashed this past December when I had F37 done.


They won't be totally useless, as they will at least tell us what the the numbers are. It would be great to have a vehicle that hasn't had any of those flashes as a basis, but I wonder how likely it would be for us to find one.
Author:  rs4mtnitro [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
alljeep wrote:
no-blue-screen wrote:
This is great. Can't wait to see the results.


The results will be useless. You need to be pre F37, pre F31, and pre 18-023-06 and quite possibly pre 18-009-06 to get an accurate difference between the current state of affairs and the factory settings that pre November 2005 people had...

It gets tricky with all the TSB and recalls that there have been as each was released at a specific and close to one another date. I've been there since almost the beginning so if I had my folder at home I could pull them all out and check the release dates.

TSB 18-009-06 Released 3/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
TSB 18-023-06 Released 7/14/06 reflashed my ECM and TCM
F31 Emission Recall Released approx 8/14/06, yet I was not subject to this due to 18-023-06.
F37 Released 12/01/06, I was not subject to the reflash part due again to 18-023-06.

My hole shot was gone for certain after 18-023-06 and I was not subject to F31 that was released an entire month later due to this TSB. Hence, any F31 CRD is already de-tuned just like an F37. I verified that my software from 18-023-06 (7/14/06) was the same as in F37, hence I was not reflashed this past December when I had F37 done.


They won't be totally useless, as they will at least tell us what the the numbers are. It would be great to have a vehicle that hasn't had any of those flashes as a basis, but I wonder how likely it would be for us to find one.



Mine is unaltered. I talked to inmotion and there programing gets rid of the crap that the f31 and f37 put in the ecm. I will have the f37 with pump done if I can bribe the tech to put in an after market t/c (t/c at my expense) for me at . After words the ecm will be going to inmotion.
Author:  DZL_LOU [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.



Well that may explain alot. I had the 18-023-06 done on mine when it was barely a month old as a preventitive measure. Never knew they were almost one in the same. If true, I can say with ALL CERTAINTY, that I never once knew there was any less power or torque reduction as a result. It didn't alter my fuel economy either. AND, I have towed a 3000# brakeless trailer over several 10,500-11,000 foot passes too. What's the big deal?


I never said it was a big deal. My main issue has been beyond horrible customer service at dealerships - especially for F37 - they left my Jeep all banged up, leaking, ect. in addition to keeping it for 6 days when promised after 1 day - plus the whole loaner car fight...

I can tell folks that after driving mine 14,000 miles with no torque reduction software that I noticed a huge difference in the 'hole-shot' performance that I was used to, but everything was the same or better at freeway speeds. I used to really accelerate from a stop light starting at 1500rpm, now it just sits there until it winds up to 3000rpm and I've L.O.S.T. the ability to "smoke" most vehicles off the line. Just an enjoyment factor that was taken away from me.

It is frusterating to know that the 545RFE has now been redesigned for model year 2008 vehicles to handle way more torque, and as such, this loss of 'hole shot' would not be necessary if this redesign were available to us.




I didn't mean it personally towards you. There are "others" who by the sounds of them are ready to put a gun to their heads over this thing. I don't do "hole shots" with mine so maybe that is the reason I didn't experience any difference. It still does everything I want it to do and more.


Really wish we can get passed this "us" and "them" and "others" segregation. We all bought the CRD for valid reasons, whether it's a 2005 or 2006 and we have experienced perceived differences in the performance after the F37 flash. The value associated to that difference in performance is relative to each owner but should be acknowledged. Each owners perception of their vehicle after the flash, although it may be unpopular to say, is valid and real. Perception is reality.
Segregation comments tend to alienate instead of unite.
Author:  BVCRD [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
DZL_LOU wrote:
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
BVCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
RTStabler51 wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the F31 flash is the same as the F37?


I was not subject to F31 because I had already proactivly gotten the 18-009-06 and then the 18-023-06 done to try and get rid of my shudder. It was 18-023-06 that was the new software that is the same as F37 as they did not reflash mine for F37 because of it. Just a few weeks after 18-023-06 came out, I believe it was canceled and replaced with F31 Recall for which I never received a notice.

Basically, 18-023-06, F31, and F37 all have the same torque reducing software in them - that I noticed way back when I got the TSB done.



Well that may explain alot. I had the 18-023-06 done on mine when it was barely a month old as a preventitive measure. Never knew they were almost one in the same. If true, I can say with ALL CERTAINTY, that I never once knew there was any less power or torque reduction as a result. It didn't alter my fuel economy either. AND, I have towed a 3000# brakeless trailer over several 10,500-11,000 foot passes too. What's the big deal?


I never said it was a big deal. My main issue has been beyond horrible customer service at dealerships - especially for F37 - they left my Jeep all banged up, leaking, ect. in addition to keeping it for 6 days when promised after 1 day - plus the whole loaner car fight...

I can tell folks that after driving mine 14,000 miles with no torque reduction software that I noticed a huge difference in the 'hole-shot' performance that I was used to, but everything was the same or better at freeway speeds. I used to really accelerate from a stop light starting at 1500rpm, now it just sits there until it winds up to 3000rpm and I've L.O.S.T. the ability to "smoke" most vehicles off the line. Just an enjoyment factor that was taken away from me.

It is frusterating to know that the 545RFE has now been redesigned for model year 2008 vehicles to handle way more torque, and as such, this loss of 'hole shot' would not be necessary if this redesign were available to us.




I didn't mean it personally towards you. There are "others" who by the sounds of them are ready to put a gun to their heads over this thing. I don't do "hole shots" with mine so maybe that is the reason I didn't experience any difference. It still does everything I want it to do and more.


Really wish we can get passed this "us" and "them" and "others" segregation. We all bought the CRD for valid reasons, whether it's a 2005 or 2006 and we have experienced perceived differences in the performance after the F37 flash. The value associated to that difference in performance is relative to each owner but should be acknowledged. Each owners perception of their vehicle after the flash, although it may be unpopular to say, is valid and real. Perception is reality.
Segregation comments tend to alienate instead of unite.




Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just trying to point out that there are those, for any number of valid reasons, are really for lack of a better word, ANGRY over this thing and there are folks that are for the most part, pretty pleased as well. That's all I meant. It's like ......"I'm mad at you because you don't hate your CRD like I do syndrom." Well, some folks actually like or love their CRD and we all need to respect each other feelings.
Author:  AZScout [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Results are in...
I'm sorry to everyone that anticipated these results. They are pretty much crap. I have a print-out but need to scan it or take a picture of it to be able to post it on the computer. This is what happened...

I tried to have a couple of runs with the F37, F37 with SP on 5, on 10, and then repeat the pattern with the F31...
I don't know if it's my Jeep or the CRD's in general but my Jeep was only good for about 2 runs before we started getting trash numbers. Specifically, a drop of about 10-20% for each run thereafter. The dyno techs were completely puzzled and said either the intercooler was not doing it's job and and was getting soaked after the two runs or the ECU was making adjustments as we changed the parameters. Therefore, we had to sit and wait for the intercooler to cool for awhile and then make two runs at a time. This was getting expensive... Anyway, we made a total of 20 runs with about half being crap because we didn't know whether we cooled it down enough. We knew the numbers were wrong when we ran the same parameter twice and got numbers that were so different from each other. And the second run was always worse, never better. Anyway, I did manage to get some good runs. I will see if I can take a picture if anyone is interested in seeing the graph. Otherwise, I'm just gonna count it up as a $120 mistake. We spent two hours doing this but they only counted me for an hours time so I don't feel as bad. But still...I'm sorry for everyone that was looking for these results... :(
Author:  greiswig [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
AZScout,

Hey, I think we all appreciate the effort and expense. Sorry that it didn't work out for you!
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Results from Diesel World September 2006

3rd Gear run on a Mustang 1100 Chassis Dyno:

1) Stock CRD with DynoMax Catback Exhaust:

159 RWHP / 268 # pounds (falls quickly after 2000 rpm)

2) DeiselPower CR-S Module with DynoMax:

183.3 RWHP / 306.6 # pounds (power came on quicker and longer)

3) Predator Module with DynoMax:

183.9 RWHP / 310.1 # pounds (fatter and stronger torque curve)
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