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Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18974		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  FarmDiesel [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
Well, it's official. Saturday, I waved goodbye to the CRD, and picked up a new Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Laramie, 4x4 pickup with a Hemi. With the MDS (cylinder deactivation), it gets about 22mpg on a flat road with the cruise set at 69 and the AC off. Cruise set at 59, it gets 24.5 (again, perfect conditions (~60 degrees, no wind, flat road, and it has 3.55 axle gearing). My samples for those numbers were about 45 miles each, on Illinois interstates.

Real-world highway (speed up/slow down, hills, etc.), I'm getting better than 20mpg in the first 500 miles. Around town, it drops to about 16.5-17.

No studder, no need for crankcase ventilation filtration, no searching for diesel, a great deal more room inside, far more towing/payload capacity, much better seats...I can't find much to complain about for me. I'll miss the liberty--mine was a pretty good little jeep--but I won't ever want to get it back over the new truck. Oh, and you're gonna have to find a pretty aggressive programmer to pick a fight with the Hemi.

Best of luck to all of you--I'm not one who leaves bitter, and I wish you the best! Mine went 49,578 miles with few problems...I hope yours do many multiples of that.
Author:  KJbob [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, good luck with your HEMI. Glad your experience with your CRD was good. Did you trade your CRD in or did you sell outright to a third person? Inquiring minds would like to know how you felt about the deal you got when getting rid of your CRD.
Author:  midwest [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
FarmDiesel wrote:
Well, it's official. Saturday, I waved goodbye to the CRD, and picked up a new Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Laramie, 4x4 pickup with a Hemi. With the MDS (cylinder deactivation), it gets about 22mpg on a flat road with the cruise set at 69 and the AC off. Cruise set at 59, it gets 24.5 (again, perfect conditions (~60 degrees, no wind, flat road, and it has 3.55 axle gearing). My samples for those numbers were about 45 miles each, on Illinois interstates.

Real-world highway (speed up/slow down, hills, etc.), I'm getting better than 20mpg in the first 500 miles. Around town, it drops to about 16.5-17.

No studder, no need for crankcase ventilation filtration, no searching for diesel, a great deal more room inside, far more towing/payload capacity, much better seats...I can't find much to complain about for me. I'll miss the liberty--mine was a pretty good little jeep--but I won't ever want to get it back over the new truck. Oh, and you're gonna have to find a pretty aggressive programmer to pick a fight with the Hemi.

Best of luck to all of you--I'm not one who leaves bitter, and I wish you the best! Mine went 49,578 miles with few problems...I hope yours do many multiples of that.



Load up your 1500 to the same weight as any of the big 3's 3/4 ton trucks, then try to run with a stock Powerstroke, Duramax or Cummins. If you really want to be entertained, try to run with any of the above that is mildly tuned. The Hemi is a nice engine, but lets not get carried away. The big boys are putting down 400 hp and 700-800 ft lbs at the rear wheels without much trouble. I'd even give it a try with my low-tech. 7.3 powertoke....if we both had 10k trailers hooked up! Can your mighty Hemi blow the doors off a little 4 banger diesel? I'm sure it can, but like the saying goes "Pick on someone your own size!"
Author:  Endurance [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I got 2 buddys who got the same engine with the cylinder cut off thing, they get about 18 on the interstate and anywhere from 14-16 in town. My dads GC is even worse.

Nice truck though. :D
Author:  gsbrockman [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
FarmDiesel wrote:
With the MDS (cylinder deactivation), it gets about 22mpg on a flat road with the cruise set at 69 and the AC off. Cruise set at 59, it gets 24.5 (again, perfect conditions (~60 degrees, no wind, flat road, and it has 3.55 axle gearing). My samples for those numbers were about 45 miles each, on Illinois interstates.

Real-world highway (speed up/slow down, hills, etc.), I'm getting better than 20mpg in the first 500 miles. Around town, it drops to about 16.5-17.


Report back to us after a few tanks with some hand-calculated figures. I'd bet you'll be disappointed.

Greg
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
FarmDiesel wrote:
Well, it's official. Saturday, I waved goodbye to the CRD, and picked up a new Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Laramie, 4x4 pickup with a Hemi. With the MDS (cylinder deactivation), it gets about 22mpg on a flat road with the cruise set at 69 and the AC off. Cruise set at 59, it gets 24.5 (again, perfect conditions (~60 degrees, no wind, flat road, and it has 3.55 axle gearing). My samples for those numbers were about 45 miles each, on Illinois interstates.

Real-world highway (speed up/slow down, hills, etc.), I'm getting better than 20mpg in the first 500 miles. Around town, it drops to about 16.5-17.

No studder, no need for crankcase ventilation filtration, no searching for diesel, a great deal more room inside, far more towing/payload capacity, much better seats...I can't find much to complain about for me. I'll miss the liberty--mine was a pretty good little jeep--but I won't ever want to get it back over the new truck. Oh, and you're gonna have to find a pretty aggressive programmer to pick a fight with the Hemi.

Best of luck to all of you--I'm not one who leaves bitter, and I wish you the best! Mine went 49,578 miles with few problems...I hope yours do many multiples of that.


I had a 2005 Magnum R/T with the Hemi and it got about 23+ with cruise control on the highway. Was hard to keep city mileage above 15 for MSD don't work that much in stop and go traffic. From what I recall with warm engine it will kick in about 35 mph. Anybody with a heavy foot MSD will not do them any good. I also recall that you have to use 5w20 oil or the MSD wont work. You have to watch it when you get your oil change that the mechanic don't put in 5w30. I liked the Hemi for it's raw power when needed but not tow rating of 3,800 lbs it had. I sure the pick up is better tow rating but you will miss the low end toque of a diesel. If it was me I would get the pick up with Cummins diesel, they run good.
Author:  Marlon_JBT [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
gsbrockman wrote:
FarmDiesel wrote:
With the MDS (cylinder deactivation), it gets about 22mpg on a flat road with the cruise set at 69 and the AC off. Cruise set at 59, it gets 24.5 (again, perfect conditions (~60 degrees, no wind, flat road, and it has 3.55 axle gearing). My samples for those numbers were about 45 miles each, on Illinois interstates.

Real-world highway (speed up/slow down, hills, etc.), I'm getting better than 20mpg in the first 500 miles. Around town, it drops to about 16.5-17.


Report back to us after a few tanks with some hand-calculated figures. I'd bet you'll be disappointed.

Greg

Nowhere did it say that he was using the OTIS/EVIC for his mileage figures.

<--'s EVIC is only about a 1/2 - 1MPG off.
Author:  CHessMaster [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear you've left us, seeing as how you are the author of the 2nd most popular thread on this board right now!! :shock:

Good luck with your new toy! :)
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
We'll miss you, farmdiesel. I've got a feeling that we might see you around this site yet.

Maybe if the Gladiator finally shows up?
Author:  Reg#43897 [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
You'll love that truck. I have one with 3.92's & sport package. My wife uses the CRD with me having occasional use. Got it last Fall so it will be interesting to see how the fuel economy picks up as the weather heats up. Have had around 19 - 20 mpg on the highway in the sub-zero temps this past Jan-Feb. That's NOT by relying on the trip computer though I have found mine to be underestimating my fuel economy. Yes, I know what I'm doing. I really am happy with it. Had a 318 Dakota for years prior to this truck. Had it since new in 1993 (was a '92 model year). Traded it for the new Hemi. The Hemi gets far better fuel economy & is a lot smoother.

Enjoy!

John.
Author:  gsbrockman [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
Marlon_JBT wrote:
Nowhere did it say that he was using the OTIS/EVIC for his mileage figures.

<--'s EVIC is only about a 1/2 - 1MPG off.


.....and no where did he state that he completely filled his tank, drove 45 miles, re-filled his tank, drove yet another 45 miles, and filled his tank once again. Image Image Image
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goodbye CRD, Hello Hemi!
BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
I had a 2005 Magnum R/T with the Hemi and it got about 23+ with cruise control on the highway. Was hard to keep city mileage above 15 for MSD don't work that much in stop and go traffic. From what I recall with warm engine it will kick in about 35 mph. Anybody with a heavy foot MSD will not do them any good. I also recall that you have to use 5w20 oil or the MSD wont work. You have to watch it when you get your oil change that the mechanic don't put in 5w30. I liked the Hemi for it's raw power when needed but not tow rating of 3,800 lbs it had. I sure the pick up is better tow rating but you will miss the low end toque of a diesel. If it was me I would get the pick up with Cummins diesel, they run good.
Hey the MDS is fine with a 5w-30, 5w-20 or 0w-40 oil, it is the first number that is important. The old 10w-30 and 20w-50 oils is what was deadly on MDS system.

MB brought the system out back several years ago in the 90's and it wa a failure due to several reasons, failues due to people using 10w or 20w oils, due to the added cost did not return investement for the system till about 80,000 miles back then, then there was the fact that most people seldom drive the car under conditions where MDS is in operation at 48 mph +/- 2 mph for proper operation. I have been a member of the LX car forum for about 2 1/2 years and basically the reports are that only time MDS is functional is in highway mode and CC locked, smallest hills and it drops out or if you go over about 70 mph same thing. Friend of mine got rid of his Hemi Magnum and bought a 3.5L Charger and is averaging 21 town and 28 highway crusing 70 to 73 mph on the interstates and loves the car.
Author:  sbohner [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:47 am ]
Post subject: 
While I'm glad that you were able to get a nice truck, I'm not so glad to hear that you will not be continuing with us on the CRD journey. You have provided a lot of good insights to those of us who are learning the CRD ropes. Thanks for all of your input to the LOST and good luck with your new truck. :D
Author:  FarmDiesel [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:24 am ]
Post subject: 
FWIW, I wasn't bashing the CRD (nor did my post imply the same). For my purposes, I had to take a long, hard look at keeping the CRD, with its questionable maintenance future, numerous mechanical issues, and parts difficulties (I was on the waiting list for the F37 torque converter for 3 months...and never did get one). The promise of the CRD was great, and mine was pretty darn reliable, but I don't think it carried through. Mine did not get the mileage I expected (more details below, and mine was modified), and frankly, I was scared about keeping a somewhat complicated, limited production vehicle. My comparison between the CRD and my new truck isn't meant to demean the CRD, but rather to indicate why I jumped ship and sold a little diesel I loved. I've found a vehicle with significantly more interior space, far more towing and hauling capacity, that runs on gas, gets very similar mileage, has no problems with parts availability (is sold in the hundreds of thousands), has no questions regarding resale value, has more comfortable seats(to my taste, anyhow), etc. With my CRD, I had blinders on to the faults in the jeep, because it was my jeep. Once I sat back and took an objective look at the vehicle, its performance, and its future, it became more clear to me why Jeep discontinued the Liberty CRD option (at present at least). Perhaps the new CRDs will have better sales, service, and reliability--I certainly hope so. And I'd love to have a vehicle that runs on biodiesel or WMO or WVO, but it has to be a workable, reliable, performing vehicle.

Over my first 2 tanks of fuel with the Ram, hand calculated, I've averaged 20.7mpg. That would be predominantly 'country highway' (2 lane blacktop, with stop signs every 5 miles or so), with very good weather (calm and in the 60s). Total mileage I've accumulated in my first few days is 832 miles. So I think I have a pretty good idea of what my mileage is. And FWIW, my CRD, with 255/70/16 Wrangler Silent Armors, the renegade lights, and a 2.5" lift didn't get much better mileage than that, especially when running winter fuel. Am I driving like a bit of a granny? Sure...I'm cruising at 65, and accelerating slowly. Did I do the same thing in the CRD to squeeze every last inch out of every drop of fuel? Yep.

You can definitely hear the MDS if you listen closely. If you accelerate gently, and drive prudently, it stays on quite a bit. It does drop off on normal acceleration, on hills, etc., but I think it is a pretty useful feature. I expect to start seeing it on more cars and trucks equipped with V-8s (as I can't see it working on 4/6 cylinder engines).

Again, I don't want to quarrel with anyone, and I can't see how my post suggested that I did. Are there cars and trucks that are faster/more efficient/can haul or tow more than the CRD? Yep. Than the Ram? Yep. All I meant to say is that I've found a vehicle that, for me, is a better blend of capabilities than the CRD, and which will hopefully carry through on its promises better than the CRD did. And again, I wish you all the best of luck!
Author:  alljeep [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Well good luck with it. Even if you only got half the mpg, there is nothing like owning a pickup truck - they are just incredibly useful. Your original post read pretty nice and clear to me.

I do feel like DC gave us a slap in the face with the mpg claims and at times think "man, I could be in a big-a pickup truck getting the same mileage with way more cargo capacity."

Pickup trucks are just awesome - new, old, rusted, shiney - doesn't matter... just very useful vehicles. Now got put that sucker to work! :P
Author:  BVCRD [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I didn't read anything into your original post. Good for you. Now, how did you make out on the CRD trade/sale?
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Not to jump to DC's Defense, but the EPA is the one who comes up with "mileage estimates". Good thing is this year they have revised thier critieria to include "real world" driving conditions and the estimates are much more realistic. I think the CRD is rated at 19/23 with the new rating system. That is a very realistic figure and can be beat with "prudent driving".

As for the CRD in general, it is a unique individual and does not meet everyones needs. It definitely does not replace a PU or vice versa. I can also see how the "exclusivity" of the CRD might make some uncomfortable with support down the line. In 4-5 years who knows where the remainder of CRDs will be..."The Smithsonian"?
Author:  FarmDiesel [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 
And Darby, not to jump on DC, but do you remember their first 3 fold marketing brochures for the CRD, which proclaimed that you could easily get 500 miles per tank (20 gallons, so 25mpg)? DC may not have come up with the numbers, but they certainly adopted them and shouted them from the rooftops. Were there asterisks and disclaimers? Probably, I don't recall (but I can't imagine the DC lawyers letting that one fly without any disclaimer). But DC's marketing of the CRD implied that it had some special characteristics which I don't believe my version of the CRD enjoyed...it did certainly have other character that made up for it, though.

Don't get me wrong, if mileage was my concern, I'd get a prius. Or a V-6 Rav-4 (similar size to the CRD, better mileage, better performance). But those aren't my only concerns, and the Ram fits my needs nicely. That's what my previous posts said--for me, the Ram is a better, 'safer' (as in more conservative) choice.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:30 am ]
Post subject: 
So you have to admit that you are a "little" disenchanted with the CRD. I for one "can" easily get 500+ per tank with at least 70% highway miles. The problem for most is that we go a bit over the speed limit, ect. I don't think the "500" was a big exaggeration...

It still does not excuse DC from other discrepancies in materials (TCs), workmanship (Fuel Heater/Filter Head) or safety issues (Ball joints EVERY YEAR of production).
Author:  midwest [ Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
When i'm in the CRD I tend to drive aggressively. However, the m.p.g. seem to stay relatively stable no matter how you drive it. Drive any 1/2 ton gasser agressively and see what it gets for m.p.g.. The CRD is just fun to drive, and mine has been mostly trouble free.
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