Well, I knew prior to purchasing my new diesel that switching to bioD fuel would cause an approximate 5% power loss just in terms of BTUs/Horsepower/Whatever. What I did not know was how the viscosity difference between B99 and DinoD would effect the common rail-type engine. Europe had some studies saying that it ran fine in that type of engine (albeit a giant bus engine), so I decided to go for it.

Of course, it runs just fine with ONE exception- Hard Starting.

Dropping down from B99 to B75 has mostly solved my hard start problems. The required "cranking time" to get it to start drops as a seeming direct relation to the percentage of BioD in the tank, until you get to 50/50 or so and then the engine turns over immediately. And these start times would be in the 55-75 degree fahrenheit range (Seattle weather in the last month).

There is about a 1 mpg drop in fuel effeciency between the two fuels. It's so close it's actually hard to tell for sure if it wasn't just different driving (temperatures, choice of route, idling time). So I just went for one full tank on each fuel and wrote down what the evic told me was the average mpg:

18.7 mpg on B99
19.5 mpg on B5 (approximate, since I didn't pump the tank/fuel lines dry first!)

As I said, utterly unscientific, I know!

After the two tanks of fuel, I started altering the Bio/Dino ratio in a series of partial fill-ups. I saw my starts go from instant to sorta sluggish as I rose back up to B100. I'm on about B75 now and it starts just fine...

I've got just over 2K on my Liberty right now, been driving the hell out of it to see if I can improve the gas mileage by breaking in that engine! LOL.

And yeah, I get terrible gas mileage, but now I know it isn't fuel-related! LOL.

On the first servicing, I'm going to ask the dealership to flash away until I get those great MPGs you guys are getting...

So, that's my experience with the CRD and Biodiesel... I'd love to hear anybody else chime in on their BioD experiences, if you've found the same things I have or if I'm still just crazy and just seeing things?!!! Well, should we adjust my meds???

_________________
Yours Truly,

Special Agent

for what it is worth, with both my Libby CRD and my Jetta TDI, the mileage went up, from one tank to the next for at least the first 5,000 miles, regardless of how I drove, where, or what fuel was in the tank.

I got 18.3 on the first tank on the Libby, then 18.8, and last time I checked it at around 11,500 miles, it got 28.4. Ditto the TDI: first tank was 43, second about 44, and by 7,000 miles, I got 55.6 on a trip.

Either your medication is fine, or I have the exact same dose
I probably do a bit more highway that you (Issaquah-Downtown Seattle on I90) but the average is 21mpg with dino, 19 with bio.
Of course i suppose you're a bit swift on the right pedal, hmmmm?

Great testing and information you provided there, it confirms my thinking: after my 33k inspection I'll go back to bio, the 5% difference is a small tradeoff for the gains (pump price, longer life, etc.)

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'07 GC CRD Limited, InMotion Stage-2 tuning, Parrot MK9200 Bluetooth & iPod.
'05 BMW F650GS Police Edition, HIDs, 1" lowering, Rick's custom seat.
SOLD'05 Black CRD Sport, steel bumper, Nokian 245/70, SpiderTrax, Flowmaster 40, Predator chip, Renegade light bar, EVIC, basket roof, Parrott Bluetooth.
'03 Lexus GS300 Sport Design/NAV/ML

My commute is generally SR-18 to 90 to 405 to 520 or I take the W. Lake Samm parkway off 90... on bio I got 19-21 and on dino I got 21-23. I'm also running a Predator chip. Holy crap that's a huge perf difference between stock and the Predator! I guess from what you guys are saying, my mileage isn't all that bad.

Now to get a TDI... LOL

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Lance Zielinski
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD
2000 VW New Beetle GLS TDI (sold)
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited (sold)

Very old Chinese wisdom: a CRD can tow a TDI, a TDI can't...

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'07 GC CRD Limited, InMotion Stage-2 tuning, Parrot MK9200 Bluetooth & iPod.
'05 BMW F650GS Police Edition, HIDs, 1" lowering, Rick's custom seat.
SOLD'05 Black CRD Sport, steel bumper, Nokian 245/70, SpiderTrax, Flowmaster 40, Predator chip, Renegade light bar, EVIC, basket roof, Parrott Bluetooth.
'03 Lexus GS300 Sport Design/NAV/ML

Heh... I was thinking as a 2nd car... 40+ MPG is a very attractive thing, doncha know!

_________________
Lance Zielinski
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD
2000 VW New Beetle GLS TDI (sold)
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited (sold)

Let's see: 19mpg @ $2.99/gal B99= $0.1574/mile

VERSUS

21mpg @ $3.29/gal DinoD= $0.1566/mile

That's about equal, for one month of driving (say 1,500 miles) gas will cost you around:

$236.10 for biodiesel

$234.90 for dino-diesel

So yeah, figured for the increased lubricity and engine life, I think the Biodiesel is a great option financially. And that's forgetting the environmental advantages totally. And the fun of sticking it to the oil companies/middle east terrorists.

I think I'll run B75 or better from now on, I don't like straining my starter and battery like that. It's worth the MPG loss and slightly higher costs for those fringe benefits.

Anybody else have hard starts on B100 but not on DinoD?

_________________
Yours Truly,

Special Agent

I have never really noticed a hard start on B99.

What are you considering a "hard start" ?

I am in Portland, and use B99 during the summer, B50 in the spring/fall, and B20 in the winter. I ski so I need the cold weather performance...

One year and 13,000 miles on the CRD so far. I put 60,000 miles on my TDI VW, with the last 40k on the same cycle...

I switched to B99 this year around April 1. B50 for most of March. B20 back to about November...

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http://www.pdxbiodiesel.org

I only get to fil up with BioD once and a while but overall I'd say I've been running at B20-30. However for the last two tanks I've been running at B70+. There is a noticable extra effort to start the engine. To me it sounds like a big boy diesel tho so I kinda like it. Like a main starting on a ship or something. Now if I can just figure how to get an air starter on the Jeep I'd be set. Yar!

As for performance I can also tell- just a hint of extra effort needed. Sometimes I think that its very quiet and other times not so much. However this might have more to do with the A/C compressor running all the time now and therefore the engine working even at idle. The jeep does not smoke much at high B numbers.
I like running BioD. It makes me feel like I'm pulling one on the man.

In other news: Apparently Chevron just opened their "Bio Fuels Division" in Galveston TX yesterday. Apparently going to be a huge BioD planet (and ethanol). Wonder if Chevron will someday sell BioD at their stores.

I've run every combination from straight dino to B-100. I have noticed no difference in starting on any mixture, but a quieter run and about 2 mpg loss on anything over B-20. I don't know if easy starts have anything to do with temperature. Mine fires in the first 2 seconds of a turned key whether the temp is 38 or 110. If you're starts are as rough as you describe I wonder if something else is wrong?

I'm no expert, but this forum is filled with 'em. Maybe some of them can address the issue or at least determine if there's a problem?

_________________
2006 Dk. Khaki Limited (BD 4/18/06)
-Mopar Tow Pkg. and Skids
-Magnaflow
-Fumoto Valve
-Provent 200, ORM
-Rotella T 5w/40
-V6 Air Box
-245/70/16 Cooper Discoverer CTS
-Amsoil EAA201 air filter

Well hopefuly someone with the Bio-D knowledge can post up something in the FAQ sticky ....

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2016 JKU RUBICON

other mods coming soon...

I am in the same boat - I never notice a difference. And I am considered to be pretty anal.

Regardless, I am happy when all of my $$$ is staying local or domestic...

_________________
http://www.pdxbiodiesel.org

Mine cranks longer and lets out a puff of blue when running B-99. It does not do that on straight Dino or even B-50 for that matter...

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Feb/2006 Silver Sport 4x4 CRD

I heard this from a friend at work too that's now running B100. His truck and the CRD both do this. Little longer to start, and a puff of blue smoke.

other than the first start of the day it runs excellent. I love Bio!!

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Feb/2006 Silver Sport 4x4 CRD

For those asking about my hard starts:

I'm talking about a "Thousand-One, Thousand-Two, Thousand-Three VROOOM!" type of start in cold weather, if that makes any sense. I am skittish about cranking the starter motor for more than about a three-count as it is, but maybe I'm crazy?

I'm used to my old gas V8 Dodge where you touch the key there is an instant rumble and you are idling. DinoD seems to be a thousand-one count, still way slower than the gas V8, but it takes literally twice as long or more on pure BioD...

The manual says no more than 20(!) seconds of cranking, which seems insanely long to me....

That's all, and if the engine is warm there's no real difference.

_________________
Yours Truly,

Special Agent

I was running B100 and noticed a decrease in power, harder to start, and lower fuel milage and was saving less than 10 cents/gal in privce over #2D. I am not pointing the finger at all B100 but I felt that the manufacturer of my B100 wasn't doing the best to provide a great product.

That is the current problem with Biofuel it doen't have a regulated standard to meet. that is consistant within the industry.

I wish I was in Valks area and had access to his suppliers. It sounds like they have their stuff together and are suppling a great product.

As per another thread here on LOST I have found that some #2Ds are better than others. I am in the Atlanta, Georgia area and was happy that I even found any B100. I will be trying it again in the future as I am looking for a different source.

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Barr
06 JLL CRD 04/06/06 23K+ mi., Amsoil, Racor Fuel Filter, EHM, ORM, 3" SS exh from Turbo back, Fumoto, 245/70/16 Grabber AT2
Waiting for installation: TransGo 45RFE-HD2, S&B Air Filter, ProVent
06 Jetta TDI/DSG, RC1+, VAG-COM,
V-65 Drag Bike

Nah, you're not crazy! In fact any cranking longer than that will get you a first rate ticket to a burnt up starter solenoid, not fun

When I first started using BD (11% is the highest I've used) I noticed a slight starting hesitation but nothing to be too concerned about. Even now I only get to use B2, but nevertheless it still runs smoother, quieter, and shuts down softer than with ole'#2

The traits you describe a are generally associated with B100 usage. Doesn't necessarily mean you found a bad biodiesel supplier, just try a reduced concentration. Even a mild concentration (5%-20%) makes a big difference.

There are actually refining standards, more a question of the refiner meeting them. The variety of the oil base stock will effect the finished fuel. As with D2, cleaniness, freshness, storage, etc.. also play an important role. I find it interesting how home brewers usuing WVO base stock usually report very good results running B100. One would assume the base oil stock has a blend of oil fats by the time it becomes waste oil. Might just produce a superior product when compared to virgin oil stock.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

Last 2 tanks of B20, from Penn Mart in Salisbury. 885 miles, 35 gallons, 25.3 MPG average for the month, all commuting secondary roads 45 to 55 mph, small percentage in town 35 mph stop and go. 4 empty 5 gallon jugs and tank only took 15 gallons. Could have come bloody close to hitting 1000 miles on two tanks.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler