LOST JEEPS :: View topic - watchout! homebrewers

Exactly. Sometimes free speech comes with a price.

But, I have to agree with one point - if fuel taxes are what build our roads, does the ability to run on WVO eliminate the responsibility to pay those taxes? After all, he is still coming out ahead, even paying the fuel tax. I would think they could have come up with a better way of handling it - maybe sending him a letter asking him to report his estimated fuel usage and pay the tax on that amount.

If NC wants to encourage the use of WVO/SVO/Biofuels, then they could certainly eliminate the state tax on all such fuels for 5 years, to encourage its growth, then gradually reinstate the taxes when when biofuels are a thriving industry.

attaching road taxes to fuel is kinda ridiculous,

I just cannot believe people brew their gasoline (or fuel) at home and run on it..
How friendly is that to the engine? I mean it's gotta be rough fuel..

No, i was not kidding, I was just trying to find out, that was my assumption. It is great that it is much cleaner and finer. That's what I thought.

I wouldn't mind brewing my own fuel, but it seems like a big deal and complicated, and that's why gas stations still make $$.

It one way it makes perfect sense. How to you fairly tax the people who are "passing through" your state and using your roads. Yes, they may have bought fuel in another state, but you're going to get a lot of folks who don't live in your state that buy fuel there. They use the roads too, why should it be "free" for them and the citizens of the state bear the tax burden? This is expecially true for states that have a very low population but lots of people pass through...like Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and most of the midwest states. Mass expanses of interstate highway. You can drive for hours and see nothing but an occasional gas station. If they passed the cost directly to their citizens, then their taxes would be outrageous.

my homemade fuel exceeds ASTM standards

Author:	nursecosmo [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	watchout! homebrewers
be careful where you put those stickers http://www.charlotte.com/112/story/153260.html

Author:	Ranger1 [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Exactly. Sometimes free speech comes with a price. But, I have to agree with one point - if fuel taxes are what build our roads, does the ability to run on WVO eliminate the responsibility to pay those taxes? After all, he is still coming out ahead, even paying the fuel tax. I would think they could have come up with a better way of handling it - maybe sending him a letter asking him to report his estimated fuel usage and pay the tax on that amount. If NC wants to encourage the use of WVO/SVO/Biofuels, then they could certainly eliminate the state tax on all such fuels for 5 years, to encourage its growth, then gradually reinstate the taxes when when biofuels are a thriving industry.

Author:	RedStapler [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:38 am ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: Exactly. Sometimes free speech comes with a price. But, I have to agree with one point - if fuel taxes are what build our roads, does the ability to run on WVO eliminate the responsibility to pay those taxes? After all, he is still coming out ahead, even paying the fuel tax. I would think they could have come up with a better way of handling it - maybe sending him a letter asking him to report his estimated fuel usage and pay the tax on that amount. If NC wants to encourage the use of WVO/SVO/Biofuels, then they could certainly eliminate the state tax on all such fuels for 5 years, to encourage its growth, then gradually reinstate the taxes when when biofuels are a thriving industry. Actually he could come out ahead of the fuel taxes with the federal production tax credits for Biodiesel. IIRC its $.50/gal for WVO feedstock and a whopping $1/gal for virgin.

Author:	Reflex [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:07 am ]
Post subject:
I don't see any reason to exempt his taxes, after all biofuels do not offer us any advantages as a nation currently(although they may in the future). That said, the simple answer to this is to simply record his odometer when he renews his tags each year(or however often he does so) and assign a per mile tax that would make up for it. Honestly, attaching road taxes to fuel is kinda ridiculous, it should be attached to mileage since that determines how much a person actually uses the roads...

Author:	McMoney [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:46 am ]
Post subject:
I agree if you want to be fair then all vehicles should be taxed the same way. Someone driving a big suv getting 12 mpg pays a lot more for the same road as somone who drives a small car getting 40 mpg. Taxing the fuel is unfair to the drivers that use more than the average amount of fuel. The taxing the mileage is a good idea then you will pay for how much you use the road not how economical your vehicle is. If i had the time and the place i would homebrew too

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

watchout! homebrewers http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21610	Page 1 of 2

Author:	skywarn [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:07 am ]
Post subject:
i dont care either way... $2000.00 year fine... is still less that what i would be paying in fuel. $2K / avg fuel price of $3.00 = 667 / 20 gal tank = 33 fill ups.. and POW!! you just spent $2000.00 in fuel. then their is me. $0.19 per gal * 667 gal = $127.00 for the same 33 fill ups.. AND im in the works in doing the SVO kit on mine as well. BTW... My avatar IS the sticker on my back window!

Author:	hyedipin [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:17 am ]
Post subject:
I just cannot believe people brew their gasoline (or fuel) at home and run on it.. How friendly is that to the engine? I mean it's gotta be rough fuel..

Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:36 am ]
Post subject:
No, it's actually BETTER fuel if you wash and filter it properly. The gunk you get from your local gas station would be the worst crap you can put in your engine. It comes from a tank that most likely has water and all sorts of bad stuff in it. Think of it like this. It's sort of like the difference between fast food and a home cooked meal. Would you rather have a pimply faced teenager working for $7 an hour and doesn't want to be there cooking your meal, or good old Mom lovingly preparing your food. Quote: attaching road taxes to fuel is kinda ridiculous, It one way it makes perfect sense. How to you fairly tax the people who are "passing through" your state and using your roads. Yes, they may have bought fuel in another state, but you're going to get a lot of folks who don't live in your state that buy fuel there. They use the roads too, why should it be "free" for them and the citizens of the state bear the tax burden? This is expecially true for states that have a very low population but lots of people pass through...like Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and most of the midwest states. Mass expanses of interstate highway. You can drive for hours and see nothing but an occasional gas station. If they passed the cost directly to their citizens, then their taxes would be outrageous.

Author:	skywarn [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:
hyedipin wrote: I just cannot believe people brew their gasoline (or fuel) at home and run on it.. How friendly is that to the engine? I mean it's gotta be rough fuel.. Your joking right??? here is a quote from the man himself.. Rudolf Diesel said, "The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in course of time as important as petroleum and the coal tar products of the present time." my homemade fuel exceeds ASTM standards

Author:	hyedipin [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:
No, i was not kidding, I was just trying to find out, that was my assumption. It is great that it is much cleaner and finer. That's what I thought. I wouldn't mind brewing my own fuel, but it seems like a big deal and complicated, and that's why gas stations still make $$.

Author:	spencevans [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Rules is rules. It has been suggested here in Utah that the state drop the gas tax and charge taxes according to the odometer and vehicle weight.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:
hyedipin wrote: No, i was not kidding, I was just trying to find out, that was my assumption. It is great that it is much cleaner and finer. That's what I thought. I wouldn't mind brewing my own fuel, but it seems like a big deal and complicated, and that's why gas stations still make $$. Well, you would also need a diesel Jeep if you wanted to do biodiesel like these guys are.....that would help. If you wanted to do "petrol" you would need to ferment, distill, and then convert your petrol jeep to run on alcohol, it could be done, but bio-D is much easyer to do.....

Author:	hyedipin [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Yeah, I figured that much.

Author:	RedStapler [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:
chadhargis wrote: It one way it makes perfect sense. How to you fairly tax the people who are "passing through" your state and using your roads. Yes, they may have bought fuel in another state, but you're going to get a lot of folks who don't live in your state that buy fuel there. They use the roads too, why should it be "free" for them and the citizens of the state bear the tax burden? This is expecially true for states that have a very low population but lots of people pass through...like Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and most of the midwest states. Mass expanses of interstate highway. You can drive for hours and see nothing but an occasional gas station. If they passed the cost directly to their citizens, then their taxes would be outrageous. Most light duty vehicles only have 350-450 miles of range on a tank of fuel. Heck my fathers Nissan Frontier double cab 4X4 4.0L can only go 400mi on a 21 Gal tank. You would have to stop to fuel at least once in most of the big Western States. Even with more range I suspect that even if you skip one state you will have to fill up in the next. If you have a large enough population passing through on an interstate it would tend to average out. This part of the reason the small eastern States like Jersey have toll roads. The other reason is that it allows NJ to tax people who don't vote. When ever you have taxation without representation it tends to run amok; politicos can use taxes on others to lavish services on their voters. This is why Hawaii taxes the snot out of Hotels and Rental Cars or why Nevada taxes gambling. There is also the Federal tax on gasoline of $18.4 cents/gal. There is already a urban to rural subsidy built into the system here with the Federal Highway Fund. Now Diesel is something of a different animal. A lightly loaded Big Rig getting 7mpg with twin 150gal tanks can drive 2100 miles between fillups. Under the IFTA rules you pay fuel tax to each state you pass through. Trucks are also hell on the roads, the damage to the road increases with the cube of the weight. Our roads would last for centuries without heavy truck traffic. Trucks pay additional taxes to partially offset this. Anything with a GVWR over 55k pays an annual tax, new equipment is taxed, and tires are taxed. From time to time you will see reps. checking for clear diesel and IFTA stickers at truck scales. The loophole in this system is when you have someone with a Diesel pickup or car with 600-1000mi of range who does not fall under IFTA. You can fill up once in CA, head east and not have to fill up until Denver.

Author:	skywarn [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:45 am ]
Post subject:
LOL i cant afford it!!! its $600 to a lab in Houston... this is what they test for the ASTM standards Flash Point Water & Sediment Kinematic Viscosity @40 °C Sulfated Ash Sulfur Content Copper Corrosion Cetane Number Distillation Cloud Point Carbon Residue Acid Number Free Glycerine Total Glycerine Phosphorous Content Sulfur Content, % Wt. Carbon Residue, % Wt. Distillation, °C API Gravity Cetane Index Fuel Lubricity Fuel LubricityPotassium, Sodium (5 ppm max) good lab however im not going to use them again..ive got a friend that can do it at their office in Waco.. for next to nothing (free) so ive course im looking into that right now

Author:	KJMedic [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:
I must have missed it but how did they prove that he had Bio in the car? Did they test it or something?

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	skywarn [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:
hyedipin wrote: No, i was not kidding, I was just trying to find out, that was my assumption. It is great that it is much cleaner and finer. That's what I thought. I wouldn't mind brewing my own fuel, but it seems like a big deal and complicated, and that's why gas stations still make $$. hey check out this site http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/makingasmallbatch/ you will see how EASY it is to make BIO-Diesel, in fact you prob have the stuff there at the house to do it tonight.

Author:	BiodieselJeep.com [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:52 am ]
Post subject:
skywarn wrote: my homemade fuel exceeds ASTM standards Cool! How do you test it affordably? I have a lot of guys who make their own but having trouble finding a cheap testing company or home apparatus.

Author:	chadhargis [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:36 am ]
Post subject:
There is a local guy here who filters his waste oil with centrifugal filters for a couple of hours before it is pumped into his processor. The waste oil is so clean it looks just like the stuff you buy from the store. He processes it with a BioPro 190, then washes it, then filters it again with a different centrifugal filter for another couple of hours. His fuel is beautiful, clear, clean stuff. He monitors the fuel all the way through the process. I don't konw what it takes to meet ATSM Standards, but his stuff is beautiful.

Author:	retmil46 [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:
FWIW, in the article the NC Dept of Revenue had already requested the state to allow it to drop the $2500 bond requirement for small fuel users, ie individuals with only one or two cars and making it only for personal use, and also said that it was going to compromise with the gent on the fine. Amazingly, looks like the state has already recognized that this is a situation that the law really doesn't address, and is taking steps to correct it. And the guy wasn't PO'd at the inspectors, said they were just doing their jobs. His only beef was being lumped in with deliberate tax cheats. Plus, he said he was going to go ahead and pay the fine, and post the required bond, so he could legally go back to burning SVO. I'll give the guy this - unlike a lot of people these days, he's willing to put his money where his mouth and beliefs are.