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Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed and..
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Author:  stockdad [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed and..
Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed here and the basic warranty elapses, am I playing an expensive game of automotive Russian Roulette?
Author:  stockdad [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
As you can see, I'm new here and after ingesting a ton of this fine website, I'm scared, quite frankly. My wife drives an '06 New Beetle TDI and the sites I frequent for it are not even close to some of the doom and gloom I read here. I really want to buy a good, clean example of a CRD and think it would fit my needs.
Author:  Reflex [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
No, not really. The mods are not required, and in some cases are illegal(ORM for instance). The CRD is a very good base vehicle, and according to Chrysler has been the most reliable Liberty they produced. Some people here have special needs, or attempt to make the vehicle conform to their own performance specifications, and as such consider the mods 'necessary', but the vast majority of owners are happy with the CRD in its stock configuration, like myself.

The engine is not uncommon, is sold in Canada, Europe, Australia and Asia so getting parts should not be difficult, and being a diesel, should over its life be generally more reliable than a gas engine if your buying it for the long haul. The one warning I would give you is on biodiesel. Lower blends should not hurt, but B80/B100 and such will probably shorten your engine life based on long haul testing, as much as 50% according to people I know who have done such testing on this engine. But this is a can of worms that a ton of people on this forum will object to, so its up to you if you wish to risk it.

Basically if you run it within spec, it should work for a very long time without problems, most likely outlasting the gas version of the Liberty by a significant amount. The modifications are not necessary, and often can void the warranty, but they may be desireable for performance reasons.
Author:  onthehunt [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Some people here have special needs, or attempt to make the vehicle conform to their own performance specifications, and as such consider the mods 'necessary', but the vast majority of owners are happy with the CRD in its stock configuration, like myself


I'll agree with this. I'm guilty of switching to the cat filter. I might switch it back to stock. Just drive it, you'll be fine.
Author:  stockdad [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, your biodiesel comment makes me even more scared.
I'm confused-if this vehicle just came out in 2005, how can there be any overwhelming evidence one way or another that b99/b100 is bad? My understanding is that the increased viscosity of biodiesel over its fossil fuel relative would actually lead to increased engine life.
There are a ton of folks who have used biodiesel in VW's TDI/PD, Ford's Powerstroke, Chevy's Duramax and, of course, the reliable Cummins for many, many miles without any ill effects.
Author:  wolcott [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
The factory CRD is a pretty good little vehicle, and most of the mods will help improve the vehicle, but are not necessary to its operation. However, there is one thing to look out for on the factory vehicle. The dipstick is about 1/4 inch short, and as a result, when the oil is changed, if the right amount (6 quarts 13 oz of oil) is added, it will read on the low side.(close to the add oil mark). My advice is after changing the oil and the filter, measure and add 6 quarts 13 oz of oil, let it run to fill up the filter and circulate the oil. Then, see where the oil level is on the dipstick, and mark it on the dipstick. DO NOT fill the oil beyond this level. Doing so will result in the oil being pumped out through the crankcase vent, through the turbo charger, and into the intercooler/EGR system/intake system where it will make a mess of things. If you stick with the correct amount of oil, this will minimize this problem.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Some have had transmission and EGR issues but most have not, I have not. I have had all recalls and TSB's done except F37 and the most recent for the blower. The only major thing I would suggest is that you put better tires on it ASAP.

The "illegal" :wink: ORM improves performance and probably improves emissions although the features it disables are supposed to improve emissions. It is a simple change of disconnecting a plug on the top of the air box which you can plug back in if you don't like the change. The ORM also likely eliminates the EGR failure issue.

The CAT filter change and the RACOR filter head mods are not required. Some are concerned about the stock fuel filter falling apart and actually making fuel quality worse if exposed to too much water so the CAT solution was developed. Others have had quality issues with the stock fuel filter assembly and are considering the RACOR as a solution for both the pressumed filter and filter head problems. Again most have not experinced problems.

The V-6 gasser air box may be the most important and practical mod as the stock CRD air box input sucks excessive amounts of dirt, bugs and water. It is a simple and low cost mod and it will improve filter life. Also, some have experienced excess oil consumption after driving in heavy rain when the air filter becomes soaked and the engine cannot breath.

The stock tires are built for mileage and driving on smooth, paved, dry streets. If you don't do this then you should consider a tire upgrade.

The Suncoast TC improves performance and would be a worthwhile upgrade if you are experiencing TC failures or generally expect better transmission performance.

Personally I have recently changed the air box and upgraded the tires but that was after 28K of use. I have the CAT but have not installed it yet. I run the ORM but of course only off road as I am sure everyone else here does. :roll: :roll: :roll: Understand that there are a ton of great tinkers here who love this truck and are just trying to finds ways to make it better. :!: :!: :!:

Edit: One final note. Some here think they are experts on bio-fuels and discourage use of them. The CRD will do just as well on them as any other BOSCH common rail system. BOSCH used to only recommend B5 but I believe they have jacked it up to B20 now. Many here have run up to B99 since they purchased their CRD many tens of thousands of miles ago with no ill effects. Remember that the discouraging comment on bio-fuel was global not CRD specific so if you follow that advice you wouldn't burn it in anything. Of course Otto Diesel would not have ever built the technology that bears his name if we followed that advice since he burned bio diesel in the first one.
Author:  onthehunt [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
He didn't say it was bad, just know what you are are doing if you choose to use anything over 5% and prepare to suffer the consequences if you screw up.
Author:  stockdad [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
He didn't say it was bad, just know what you are are doing if you choose to use anything over 5% and prepare to suffer the consequences if you screw up.



"but B80/B100 and such will probably shorten your engine life based on long haul testing, as much as 50% according to people I know who have done such testing on this engine"

I would characterize this comment concerning biodiesel as 'bad'. If it aint, I don't what is!
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
stockdad wrote:
onthehunt wrote:
He didn't say it was bad, just know what you are are doing if you choose to use anything over 5% and prepare to suffer the consequences if you screw up.



"but B80/B100 and such will probably shorten your engine life based on long haul testing, as much as 50% according to people I know who have done such testing on this engine"

I would characterize this comment concerning biodiesel as 'bad'. If it aint, I don't what is!


Read my edit and veg away.
Author:  onthehunt [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Burn what you want, just be prepared to pay for your mistakes. Kinda reminds me of the cat filter/bad lift pump thread. We can say and prove all day long that the cat fuel filter is better than the stocker in every way but when the dealer says you used an unapproved filter and now you have no warranty and must pay for the repairs, you have have nothing to stand on.
Author:  Jeger [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dont forget about the CCV system, I think its just to easy of a problem to fix to just let it go. Sure it may take a lot of miles to pass enough oil to cause a problem but no one knows how many that is yet. I say put a provent on there and you will never have to worry about it. Or there is the EHM.
Author:  Reflex [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
stockdad wrote:
Well, your biodiesel comment makes me even more scared.
I'm confused-if this vehicle just came out in 2005, how can there be any overwhelming evidence one way or another that b99/b100 is bad? My understanding is that the increased viscosity of biodiesel over its fossil fuel relative would actually lead to increased engine life.
There are a ton of folks who have used biodiesel in VW's TDI/PD, Ford's Powerstroke, Chevy's Duramax and, of course, the reliable Cummins for many, many miles without any ill effects.

These engines are not only used for consumer vehicles. I know people who have used them for military purposes and there has been long haul testing on them in that capacity using biofuels. Chrysler has also done such testing and I know some of the people involved. Chrysler would love to advertise their vehicles as being biofuel capable, but instead will only warranty a vehicle when its had no higher than B5 run through it. There are several reasons for this, but thats a whole other discussion, and one we have argued ad-naseum on these forums for months now. Suffice it to say, my only point was that you take your warranty into your own hands when you choose to do anything beyond Chrysler specs with your engine, and when people then whine after something is broken, I have little sympathy for them.

When run to the specs Chrysler gives, this engine will last a VERY long time. I know personally that it has been tested to the million mile mark and was nearly flawless. When I bought my Liberty I was not in the market for the Liberty, or even a Jeep. A close friend of mine worked on this engine and informed me of the single US vehicle that used it, and hence I ended up buying a Liberty.

Cowcatcher - And some of us like to imply that we are in touch with the workings of the Democratic party and elected officials, when in fact we are nothing more than a committeeperson for a district. Not that there is anything wrong with that job, mind you, but its a bit presumptuous to imply that you are somehow more in the know than any other party member who participates at the precinct/district level.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
All banter about Biodiesel ect needs to go to the "special section". We have gone thru this before and this thread is not going to turn into ... well you know what...

The only real thing you might HAVE to "fix" would be the Torque Converter...maybe...but it not written in cement.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
DarbyWalters wrote:
All banter about Biodiesel ect needs to go to the "special section". We have gone thru this before and this thread is not going to turn into ... well you know what...

The only real thing you might HAVE to "fix" would be the Torque Converter...maybe...but it not written in cement.


I promissed myself to not post on this topic again but
AMEN DARBYWALTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  Threeweight [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know folks want to avoid an argument over biodiesel, but I just want to point out that to my knowledge no automaker that sells in the US will warranty anything over B5. Nothing to do with engine design (Cummins actually says their engines are fine with B20, but Chrysler says B5 for the trucks that contain said engines).

In fact, in Europe, where our engine is built (and used in everything from trucks to tractors) bio-diesel has been in widespread use for much longer, and manufacturers like VW will warranty much higher percentage fuels than they do in the US. It comes down to the slow development of bio here in the US, and concerns over quality control. Check this out if you want to learn more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

I am in the same boat as you... I just bought a Liberty CRD a few months ago. It is really the only vehicle sold in the US that meets my needs at this time (1 - decent fuel economy, 2 - ability to handle bad roads for hunting and fishing, and 3 - ability to tow my raft trailer (and soon a small boat). I would suggest shopping around for a 2006 model as they seem to have fewer issues (that is what I did).

In the near term, the only mod's I plan on doing are transmission and transfer case skids, gasser airbox, and slightly larger AT tires (mixed feelings on this... I need the clearance and abrasion resistance on the tires, but I loath losing a couple MPG). Longer term, I think I am going to go for the Suncoast tranny upgrade.

I've only put 2k miles on mine so far, but it has all been on B20 and B99 fuel. Running B20, today I had to drive 180 miles (90 miles each way) on flat interstate for work. Got and average of 30.4 MPG on the EVIC on the drive down, and 28.3 on the way back (had a headwind). The EVIC is supposed to underestimate mileage by about 1 MPG. There is nothing else currently available in the US that can return those kinds of MPG numbers, run bio fuels, and still tow and conduct itself decently off road.

I fully expect my CRD to be a hassle at times, but I can live with it in exchange for the advantages it posseses over other vehicles on the market today,
Author:  Weegie5 [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
...Of course Otto Diesel would not have ever built the technology that bears his name if we followed that advice since he burned bio diesel in the first one.


It's Rudolf Diesel. Maybe you're confusing the terms Diesel cycle with the Otto cycle, which describes the thermodynamics of a spark-ignition (gas) engine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Weegie5 wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
...Of course Otto Diesel would not have ever built the technology that bears his name if we followed that advice since he burned bio diesel in the first one.


It's Rudolf Diesel. Maybe you're confusing the terms Diesel cycle with the Otto cycle, which describes the thermodynamics of a spark-ignition (gas) engine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle


Thanks for the correction. I miss-spoke. I was probably thinking of Otto Titslinger of Bette Medler fame. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  retmil46 [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed a
stockdad wrote:
Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed here and the basic warranty elapses, am I playing an expensive game of automotive Russian Roulette?


From the responses you've gotten, you can probably gather that the old saying is true - opinions are like, uhhh, noses - everyone has one.

I'd say the best way to determine whether or not, for your situation, the mods discussed here are worthwhile for YOU (not someone else), would be to crosscheck against other diesel forums - tdiclub, Turbo Diesel Register, etc - where they are discussing similar mods and problems with other diesel vehicles. Try to get a feel for what effect the mod has - is it just "nice to have" because it looks or sounds cool or bumps up your fuel mileage a tad - or is it "recommended" because it could have a beneficial effect as to the longevity, reliability, and amount of maintenance you'll have to put into the vehicle?

After that, it's your decision, based on how the vehicle performs, your preferences, and your bank account.

If it meets your needs bone stock, and you're blessed to not have any of the problems discussed here, you're good to go. If, on the other hand, you do run into some of the same issues, you already have a heads up just from being here on how to resolve them.

Some have run bone stock without any problems, others have run into a couple of things here and there, and others could quote a veritable laundry list of items and are on a first-name basis with their service tech. Probably true of most any new model vehicle you'd buy these days.

Will the vehicle run as is without any of these mods? Yes. Will you run into the same problems some of these mods address? Don't know. Can some of these mods make owning the vehicle a more enjoyable (or less painful) experience? Yes. Thats' about the best answer I can give you, and in the end the final decision is up to you.
Author:  KJMedic [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed a
retmil46 wrote:
stockdad wrote:
Sooo, if I buy a CRD and I don't do the mods discussed here and the basic warranty elapses, am I playing an expensive game of automotive Russian Roulette?


From the responses you've gotten, you can probably gather that the old saying is true - opinions are like, uhhh, noses - everyone has one.



And they are full of snot. :lol:
The question to ask folks on here is weather they would buy one again or not. I know that I would IF I could find one.
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