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Chrysler's CRD Support
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21816		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  drharv [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Chrysler's CRD Support
After many hours on phone with many people who know more than I do, I have determined on thing. We are in a world of hurt for this vehicle. Number one, they are not using VM Motori anymore (yup we can still get parts from Europe). Number two, the fuel system is not used on any other vehicle so far. No other vehicle uses this injector pump configuration (basically it is a Bosch CP3 but different), common rail, and at least one or both of the fuel control valves. There is a 4 month delay from Bosch Germany (they do not stock these parts, they make them to order) for the pump and or the valves. There is no protocol for testing or repair of the injector pump or other components. AND one thing that I was slow to believe, they do not train there techs to a minimal competency. It is up to us to determine where you can get a tech with a clue on these engines (and they are the only ones with the specialty tools necessary to remove the pump...OY!). OLDNAVY suggested I source a CRD trained tech and I did, now follow his suggestion and find one for when and if you need anything fixed.

That said, maybe some other vehicle will use this pump and it will become more widely available.

If you love it and have a great CRD mechanic, then keep it and hoard engine and fuel injection parts.

Sorry for the rant.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would be surprised Mike if Jeep quit using this on their Liberty's and Wranglers beyond North America as they have used it or the 2.5 (I believe essentially the same motor and probably the same pump) since 2002 0r 2003. I would think the VM might also use the same pump on some of their other engines and they have been in business for a few years. Perhaps we should be knocking on VM North America for answers though rather than D/C.
Author:  drharv [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
You are correct, I emailed them 10 days ago asking for more information on the system. Nothing so far.

Until VMM is easily contacted then we are stuck with Chrysler.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it might be good for us as a group to approach VMM about this and other issues since they are the ones with the reputation to support here. I am sure their aspirations in the North American market go well beyond the Liberty and many of us work in industrial environments that involve making procurement choices. If we consider VMM generators and industrial engines a bad value because of the Liberty CRD experience and purchase from another source that does VMM nothing in the long run. My past experience with many GE products for example steers me away from purchasing or allowing anything with the GE on it from being purchased and I will carry that attitude with me to the grave.
Author:  drharv [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think that VMM has clue as to how poor the DC training and support is, or they don't really care because it is such a small market segment. I agree with you that they need to know how we feel about their product.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Someone here had extreme issues, I think with the transmission and VMM North America got into the act and they were not happy with D/C because they were blaming D/C. I believe the LOST member involved was in direct contact with VMM NA in thhis issue. Perhaps we can re-establish that contact as a group.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Like they really helped before the sale :lol:

Makes ya' wish you could buy a couple of wrecked CRD's for a rainy day :idea:
Author:  drharv [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is a wrecked 2006 limited (Passenger side front) for $15000 in Quebec. :wink:
Author:  Ranger1 [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Drharv,

If it helps, the tdi owners seem to think a lot of this diesel pump rebuilder - perhaps they can provide some assistance or know who can:

Diesel Fuel Injection Service
8922 NE Vancouver Way
Portland, OR 97211
Phone: (503) 235-1947
Fax: (503) 459-4711
Email: mark@d-f-i-s.com
Factory Trained For : A, MW, P, P7, P8, VE, VE-E, EDC
Seal # 3801
Author:  drharv [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info ranger1, the problem is there are no parts or test parameters for this pump in North America. Those pump guys probably deal with Power Distributing in Seattle (even our diesel guys in Calgary use them) and the cannot help. No diesel shop can even get this pump for 3-4 months! Parts are just not available to the after market or even the Bosch dealer network themselves.
Author:  GilaMonster [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I seem to remember that VM Motori is owned by Detroit Diesel. Maybe contacting them may be of some help. This powerplant is used in a marine application too. Sourcing parts may be a matter of finding another division that uses the engine.
Author:  spencevans [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:18 am ]
Post subject: 
If I remember correctly to sell an auto in the USA the auto maker is required by law to carry all replacement parts for a vehicle for 10 years. Because DRHARV is from Canada the laws may not be the same there and that may be why parts mabe harder to come by. Here in the States parts should not be an issue until 2016 and usually all parts can be found for a few years after that. So realistically it's more like 2020. Currently DX is waiting for leased CRD's to be returned so they can be chopped for parts. So if they were on a 36 month lease then they may be on there way back to the chop shop. Personally I am not worried at all because the CRD is sold all over the world in many different forms. And when 2016 rolls around I hope to have driven this thing into the ground.
Author:  jinstall [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Someone give me all the specs on the pump and I will see if I can get one "off the shelf" from here with a price. I have a Bosch service center I can stop at on the way home.
Author:  chadhargis [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I think this is a lot of Chicken Little "the sky is falling" stuff.

Yes, the CRD was brought to the US for only 2 years, but as has been mentioned, it's been sold in Europe for years. The VM Motori engine has been used in Chrysler minivans as well. We're not alone with this engine. Based on what I've learned about it, you can expect the body to fall apart around the motor before it needs any work. VM Motori engines are supposedly very strong. Heck, the smaller versions even power taxi cabs, which is about a hard as you can be on an engine.

I realize that some people are and will have issues with the vehicle. It's a machine, it will break. Nothing is perfect and nothing runs forever. Not a Mercedes, not a BMW, not a Sherman tank. Nothing.

I'm willing to bet that if you can't find the EXACT fuel pump you need, there are a few others that would work with a little modification.

I've seen people wedge a Ford 302 V8 in a Miata, a Chevy LS1 V8 in an RX-7, and a Dodge Cummins diesel and tranny into a Ford truck. If that can be done...then a fuel pump should be really simple.
Author:  drharv [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am sorry that I made my original post sound like the injector pump will never be available...it will just not now. There are 4 pumps in North America and I just bought on of them. Bosch is making this pump on an as ordered basis because of the low demand; there have been very few failures...it is an awesome design and virtually bullet proof. As a business Bosch does not need to build too many spares since they don't need them in inventory, if they run short they will make more. The lead time on the product is the issue....not whether it will ever be available. 2006 id the first year that they used this pump. The 2005 models have different model number.

The tools and spare for rebuilding this pump are not available to Bosch certified service depots....yet. Maybe they will be tomorrow or next year or whatever, but for now your only option is to replace it ( it can be tested but not verified by any protocol because there isn't one released yet) with available stock or wait 2-4 months for them to build you one.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mike,

I got the impression from Greg in Seattle that there might never be and that the practice wasn't common to Bosch simply because of the low failure rate. I think he told me that he has heard of a couple of Bosch failures on Dodge trucks but all with over 300K on the ticker. It is hard to justify a field service process with a track record like that.

But....how is your project coming. I think we are all most concerned about a positve outcome to that and a reasonable diagnosis of the cause.
Author:  drharv [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ijust update the thread. Short - ordered pump and sent it to a qualified tech who is making a point of doing the job correctly. He is a skilled CRD/Spinter tech who hates when "hacks" touch stuff the know nothing about.

Thanks for the resourcces and I agree these pumps do not fail. Just mine, maybe.......
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