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Found a successful WVO conversion!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22122		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  japerry [ Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Found a successful WVO conversion!
I'm on a road trip from Alaska to Seattle, WA and I drop by Chena hot springs -- I'm always on the lookout for KJs to see if any are CRDs, and as I see one that is the same color and version (limited) as mine, I walk to the back and see:

"CHENA HOT SPRINGS POWERED 100% WVO JEEP CRD" and '05 CRD Limited down where the logo is supposed to be at!!!

So I find the owner, who was more than happy to show me the car. She did it over at Greasel, which actually looked like a much easier setup than what you're led to believe.

Setup:
1) Tank is replaced with a 5/15 Dino/WVO tank, with two spigots going up to the fuel door.
2) The fuel filter is in an interesting location, behind the driver-side bumper -- and wrapped to contain the heat.
3) One coolant/fuel line goes from the front to back, with wires following it. I'm not sure if they have a lift pump back there or not (didn't see one)
4) In the engine compartment, there are bi-valves located between the fuel filter and the battery, it didn't seem like it had any loop system, but I wasn't able to map it totally
5) She had an additional fuel gauge in the car to show diesel fuel (WVO was on the main fuel gauge), and one switch to go between tanks

Experience:
1) Immediately after she switched the system, the computer CEL came on (no surprise here) indicating that there was air in the system. She took it down to the dealership, and according to her they adjusted the computer to not throw that error anymore.
2) Shes been driving it for a year, note that she also is driving this in FAIRBANKS ALASKA, where the average temperature is around -10F to 15F in the winter. In the summer she usually leaves it on WVO, but winter she switches to diesel except for the drive between chena and fairbanks, which is 60miles each way.
3) She took it into the shop just a few weeks ago, and they said there is no problems with the injectors, lift pump, or injection pump.
4) She uses Soybean oil and some of it even is Hydrogenated!
5) She reports that the 5 micron filter onboard has to be changed more than she originally was told, around 1500-2000 miles. This is probably due to the Water separator filling up with water or that the soy is just really dirty even after going though her shop pump and filters.

A few weeks before this trip, I pretty much decided to not convert it and buy another Mercedes instead -- this was because I was lacking the information I needed to know, more specifically, data from someone using the system. After seeing her rig, with the system, I was really impressed. So one year later, I think I'm going to start doing the conversion!
Author:  ericanand [ Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Let us know how it goes.
And don't forget to take pictures of your conversion process!
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I heard Greasel was doing this type of conversion (I believe they are now called goldenfuelsystems.com).

We had a thread on here about an ebay listing from the OWNER of Goldenfuels who was selling a converted KJ CRD. There was video showing the parts in detail.

WARNING: the ad ALSO noted that the CRD had to have the engine REPLACED because of engine oil polymerization screwed the pooch. And this is from the OWNER of Goldenfuel. He was very up-front about it, and said you have to change the engine oil much more frequently, which he forgot to do one time.

Personally, I'd look into elsbett.com, they have more experienc with CRD's from Europe.
Author:  RedStapler [ Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
BiodieselJeep.com wrote:
I heard Greasel was doing this type of conversion (I believe they are now called goldenfuelsystems.com).

We had a thread on here about an ebay listing from the OWNER of Goldenfuels who was selling a converted KJ CRD. There was video showing the parts in detail.

WARNING: the ad ALSO noted that the CRD had to have the engine REPLACED because of engine oil polymerization screwed the pooch. And this is from the OWNER of Goldenfuel. He was very up-front about it, and said you have to change the engine oil much more frequently, which he forgot to do one time.

Personally, I'd look into elsbett.com, they have more experienc with CRD's from Europe.


Hmm...I can sort of understand doing the conversion for idealogical grounds (Zero Net CO2, Hate the Saudis and all that). But the economics suck.

Between the cost of the conversion, the more frequent oil changes and voiding the warranty. Throw in the cost of virgin soybean oil or the time and hassle of rounding up WVO and this idea is a dud.

There is no way in hell you are going to come out ahead on total cost of ownership.

I'll stick with quality biodiesel from a trusted source.

Now if you had a large source of WVO and had an old 5cyl MB it could be doable. Or if you had owned a Big Rig and could amortize the costs over the 3000-4000 gal per year that you burn.
Author:  chadhargis [ Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's the same math that is keeping me from building a biodiesel processor. I just don't use enough fuel. I'm looking for a group of folks to go in with, then I can make the numbers work.
Author:  japerry [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've been running 100% WVO in my 83' Mercedes for a little over a year now -- I have a reliable source, which is free, making it very advantageous for me, when I'm driving nearly 20,000 miles a year.

Thats interesting to hear about the CRD ebay issue... I'm wondering if there is a fundamental flaw with WVO in the engine (meaning that no matter what you do, its bad), or just that he didn't design his system well enough to keep the engine from becoming destroyed.

We'll find out I guess, I'm putting together my parts sheet, including a computer controlled switching system tied into the ignition, so you cannot turn it off on WVO. with the amount of miles I drive and the free veggie, so far I think its still worth it. For me.

BTW: I'm not doing biodiesel because after looking up the math for the processor and the extra ingredients I'd have to buy, I'd be paying somewhere between 40-1.30/g, and could still end up ruining my engine (according to some posts on this forum).
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you are into electronic shut-offs and such, check out www.frybrid.com. You'll see all the ideas implemented there.

Again, lsbet.com has the generally agreed best method AND lots of VO experience with our exact Jeep. Definitely check in with them.
Author:  Threeweight [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:54 am ]
Post subject: 
We've got a shop in Corvallis, OR that is now handling all facets of WVO conversions (as well as basic mechanics services on diesel VW's):

http://www.greaseworks.org/

There is a WVO conversion Liberty CRD for sale in their classifieds section:

http://www.greaseworks.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=PN_zClassifieds&file=detail&cat=1&de=189

There is a similar shop here in Portland (Fix Em' Haus). When the warranty expires on my Jeep, I'm taking it to them for any major items that come up. A couple other Portland CRD owners are already doing the same.

Given all the hassle dealers are giving people with warranty (and incompetent tech's working on diesels), I suspect this will be the wave of the future for biodiesel and WVO (at least until the big Govt subsidies kick in and bio-diesel goes big time).
Author:  skywarn [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 
food for thought...

Grease Car (the leader in the USA) will NOT sell parts or a kit for the CRD. their R&D dept has smoked 2 crd motors... they wouldnt tell me how or why it happend. Just that they wouldnt sell me anything. :?
Author:  Bovie [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
skywarn wrote:
food for thought...

Grease Car (the leader in the USA) will NOT sell parts or a kit for the CRD. their R&D dept has smoked 2 crd motors... they wouldnt tell me how or why it happend. Just that they wouldnt sell me anything. :?


Thats kind of scary. Does anyone know how the conversions are going in other Common Rail Engines (Duramax, Cummins, ...)???
Maybe is the fact that these 20,000+ PSI fuel systems just cannot take a fuel that is so thick?
What about professionally made BioDiesel?


The old Mercedes 240D (OM616) 300D/SD (OM617) seem to love svo and wvo.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
skywarn wrote:
food for thought...

Grease Car (the leader in the USA) will NOT sell parts or a kit for the CRD. their R&D dept has smoked 2 crd motors... they wouldnt tell me how or why it happend. Just that they wouldnt sell me anything. :?


Hummm, my Jeep salesman actually gave me the local "Grease Car" guys card shortly after I purchased. They must have had a change of heart.
Author:  japerry [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
grr. I really want to know how these guys L.O.S.T. their CRD engines-- in theory it should work, so I'm wondering if the reason these engines died is because of faulty conversions, owner upkeep, etc.

If this is working successfully in other Common Rail Systems, there shouldn't be any reason why it wouldn't work in the Jeep -- Heat and filtering, thats it--now finding a system to get it filtered, and heated enough -- thats the goal.

I contacted elsbett a while back, but it took them more than a month to get back to me for a quote.... So my first impression of them hasn't been too great.
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Check out the Frybrid.com guys for all the wonky ideas sussed out...it will give you a good idea of how to do a two-tank system in a slick way.

Yeah, Elsbet takes their time gettting back to US folks. But they are the only folks who modify the injectors...so think about that.

I'm pro WVO but ... find out what's up with the smoked CRD engines first!
Author:  skywarn [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Just call Grease Car, they are really good people, I even said that 2 other co. are making conv. for the CRD. The guy had some really good points, and others that just didnt hold any wat..e.. OIL! :lol: Anywho, I was looking for adding a tank not doing a 5/15 split... and after i was done calling everybody i was left with a "hmmm what now" thought. so untill i have an extra $3500 laying around, i fig ill just work on tires and a lift, and keep making Bio
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