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The New Fuel Filter, Filter Head, Lift Pump Thread
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22242		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  The New Fuel Filter, Filter Head, Lift Pump Thread
OK folks, let's centralize this discussion so drharv's topic will stick to his specific situation until resolved.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Bend Over Moment at NAPA
I decided that this would be a good day for a fuel filter change and I am not yet prepared to order bulk or install my CAT so I stop by my very large, centralized NAPA warehouse that distributes to most of the NAPA stores in a three or four state area. I had checked out the NAPA site ahead of time and the price on the filter was around $21. So yesterday late I stop by and yes they have one, count them 1, in stock. $31!!!!!!! Yes, I went ahead and bought it because the extra $10 is not the end of the world for me but if I don't convert to the CAT soon the local NAPA network won't be seeing my checkbook.
Author:  chrispitude [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
So this post was pretty interesting:

RabidRdKill wrote:
I did a little digging and found that the 02, 03 & 04 Euro only diesels all used exactly the same Racor fuel filter/head assembly - DC P/N 53013307 as someone previoulsy described in pictures.

In 05, 06 (US and Euro) and 07 (Euro Only) all applications used the same 'new' part that we have all come to love and adore so much, P/N 52129237. No doubt our friends overseas will start seeing the same leaks we're experiencing on the later model vehicles.

This begats 5 questions:
1: Is the older assembly still available?
2: Is it better than the newer part?
3: Is it compatible with our 05 & 06 Libbys?
4: Can a US dealer order this part or do we need to find a friendly dealer in Europe?
& finally
5:Have we hijacked this thread and should a new one be started? :?


It sure is interesting that the Racor part was used before in Europe, and DCX went through the trouble of apparently designing a new part for the later model years. I wonder if there is a limitation to the Racor in a 2.8L VM application that we are not aware of?

- Chris
Author:  chadhargis [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
It should work, it's the same engine as the 2.5, just an increase in bore, different wet liners, and different pistons. See here:

http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=11
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bend Over Moment at NAPA
Cowcatcher wrote:
I decided that this would be a good day for a fuel filter change and I am not yet prepared to order bulk or install my CAT so I stop by my very large, centralized NAPA warehouse that distributes to most of the NAPA stores in a three or four state area. I had checked out the NAPA site ahead of time and the price on the filter was around $21. So yesterday late I stop by and yes they have one, count them 1, in stock. $31!!!!!!! Yes, I went ahead and bought it because the extra $10 is not the end of the world for me but if I don't convert to the CAT soon the local NAPA network won't be seeing my checkbook.


That's why I drive right by NAPA when I need parts :shock:
Author:  Turbo Tim [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bend Over Moment at NAPA
Cowcatcher wrote:
I decided that this would be a good day for a fuel filter change and I am not yet prepared to order bulk or install my CAT so I stop by my very large, centralized NAPA warehouse that distributes to most of the NAPA stores in a three or four state area. I had checked out the NAPA site ahead of time and the price on the filter was around $21. So yesterday late I stop by and yes they have one, count them 1, in stock. $31!!!!!!! Yes, I went ahead and bought it because the extra $10 is not the end of the world for me but if I don't convert to the CAT soon the local NAPA network won't be seeing my checkbook.


Here in Arizona they honor the internet price. Just print it off, take in your recipt, and you should get $10 back. (You can send me $5 for pointing this out to you.....).
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bend Over Moment at NAPA
Turbo Tim wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
I decided that this would be a good day for a fuel filter change and I am not yet prepared to order bulk or install my CAT so I stop by my very large, centralized NAPA warehouse that distributes to most of the NAPA stores in a three or four state area. I had checked out the NAPA site ahead of time and the price on the filter was around $21. So yesterday late I stop by and yes they have one, count them 1, in stock. $31!!!!!!! Yes, I went ahead and bought it because the extra $10 is not the end of the world for me but if I don't convert to the CAT soon the local NAPA network won't be seeing my checkbook.


Here in Arizona they honor the internet price. Just print it off, take in your recipt, and you should get $10 back. (You can send me $5 for pointing this out to you.....).


Here they don't!!! I had it with me.! :evil:
Author:  Tinman [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
The change from the Racor to the current unit probably had less to do with mechanical reasons and more with money. Built a cheaper mouse trap and save money. As long as it can get thru the warrnety peroid, the manufactorer doesn't care. I would think the Racor unit should work. Does that have a receptical for the fuel temp probe? Most importantly, does Racor still make this unit? What is the micron filtration? This older part may be just what the CRD doctor ordered.
Author:  Jeger [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:55 am ]
Post subject: 
browsing the net...

Image

Havnt had much time to search yet..maybe someone else kind find some better pics?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow, great photo. Note the air box too. I don't see wires attached to the head.
Author:  chadhargis [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah...I noticed that, and what is that bracket to the right of the fuel filter and to the left of the brake fluid res? My CRD doesn't have that either.
Author:  techTim [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Is that a European spec CRD?
also note the airbox scoop design, looks like I imagine the '02 gasser style.
the fuel filter has mopar writ large on it, but those 90 degree brass fittings are not stock looking to me, what gives? :?
Author:  dieseldawg [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
chadhargis wrote:
Yeah...I noticed that, and what is that bracket to the right of the fuel filter and to the left of the brake fluid res? My CRD doesn't have that either.


The box to the right looks like a cruise control servo box. This CRD pictured must not have complete electronic throttle control. Just my guess, but its my best guess since it has that cable coming out the front.
Author:  Jeger [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I havnt translated it yet but it is an 04 model from this page:

http://www.motoforum.pl/313/cherokee.html

If you are searching dont forget that they are called cherokees overseas, and that they had 2.5 CRD's in them for some time.
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ranger1 found some close-up pics of the fuel filter that he sent me on e-mail, which unfortunately I don't have the capability of posting here.

On the bottom of the filter there is a plastic see-thru bowl, with a water drain and two other fittings with wiring harnesses connected to them. One is most probably a fuel heater, as it has the same red/black wiring harness that goes to ours, and Racor puts their fuel heater below the filter element.

The other fitting I'm not sure, it could be either a wif sensor or a fuel temp sensor. The color coding on the wiring doesn't match either on our US spec CRD's. Perusing the Racor catalog, I'd lean toward a wif sensor.

If you go to www.usdieselparts.com , you can access the current full Racor catalog in pdf format.

Looking thru their catalog, there may be an intermediate solution to completely replacing the stock filter head with a Racor unit.

Racor makes filter elements to replace OEM spin-on cartridges. Three of them have the same thread and gasket size as our stock filter assembly (16MM thread, 72 MM gasket). They can be ordered as 2, 10, or 30 micron elements. P/N's are S3208, S3209, and S3216. Add suffix to P/N for micron size, S = 2 micron, T = 10 micron, P = 30 micron.

For these same filters, you can order either metal or see-thru plastic bowls, some of them equipped with fuel heaters, depending on the diameter of the filter, and all standard with a water drain.

In this case, only one of the above filters, S3209, is of sufficient diameter (3.82") to be able to use a see-thru bowl equipped with both a water drain and 12V fuel heater. While the gasket and thread size match, the overall diameter of the filter, approximately 1/2" more than the OEM filter, might pose some fitment problems with the mounting bracket and fuel inlet banjo fitting on the OEM filter head, and it would be wise to do some measurements first.

If the 3209 filter will fit without any clearance problems, with a see-thru bowl including a water drain and 12V heater, that could solve two problem areas - the fuel temp sensor and fuel heater on the stock filter head.

By keeping the sandwich adapter with the temp sensor and stock fuel heater in place, you could still make use of the stock fuel temp sensor, which there doesn't seem to be a readily available replacement for.

The stock fuel heater could be plugged up with your medium of choice (RTV, epoxy, etc) to prevent any leaks. The connector on the wiring harness can be changed to match that on the bowl heater of the Racor filter, and plugged into the bowl heater.

The bowl heater on the Racor units are 12V 200 watt, and unlike the stock unit which constantly has power applied, has it's own thermostat built in - 45 F on, 85 F off.

While there isn't a provision for the wif sensor, you could argue that having a see-thru plastic bowl, where you can actually see when the filter needs to be drained down, would eliminate that need. There's also the chance that the drain fitting on the bowl will be the same thread size (M12 X 1.5) as the wif sensor on the OEM filter and be able to use it without modification, or be able to retap or install an adapter to make use of the wif sensor.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mitchell,

Email the photos to me an I will post them!!!
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
Mitchell,

Email the photos to me an I will post them!!!


Good deal, drop me a PM with your e-mail address and they'll be on their way.
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pics on the way.
Author:  drharv [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
good discussion, guys
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Actually, quite feasible. Racor also makes what are called "end caps" that you can install on a filter assembly that you don't intend to use any more, but have to leave in the system for plumbing or other reasons - essentially a filter case with the external threads and gaskets but no guts.

The only thing you'd really need from the stock filter assembly would be the plastic sandwich adapter with the fuel temp sensor.

If you could find a generic base filter head - just the inlet and outlet ports and standpipe for attaching the filter - with the correct size standpipe, you could remove the section with the fuel temp sensor, place it on the base filter head, then screw on one of the Racor end caps - you'd then have a small assembly with just the fuel temp sensor in it that you could plumb in anywhere on the supply side.

You could then completely do away with the rest of the stock fuel filter assembly, and install a Racor or Stanadyne or whatever fuel filter assembly in the stock mounting location.
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