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FYI CRD Frankenlift package change
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22672		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Johnboy [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  FYI CRD Frankenlift package change
Talked to Heather at AllJ's today. She said last week they decided to remove the spacers from the Frankenlift due to difficulty of intallation. I'm sure you can still add them, but they do not come with the pre assembled kits. Lift is ~2" now.

Note about AllJ's: phone conversation was very pleasant. She was helpful and honest...made me feel better about spending $1K anyhow...
Author:  0311_DoC [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
as opposed to what 2.5 or 3 inches. whell that kinda bites a lil :evil:
Author:  Johnboy [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
guess it didnt seem that bad to me as it is much easier to install (or at least i was told). I would also assume less component wear would result from the lift. and considering the ridiculously small wheel well of the KJ a guy cant really get oversized tires on anyhow. there are several options to gain the additional height, they just are not included in the frankenlift kit now (she seemed nice enough not to run me around??). guess it is better for my goal being better handling on and off road, more suspension travel, and more clearance which is a premium on at least my CRD. the front skid is more like a plow...anyhow it is as it is, a 2" lift now....
Author:  0311_DoC [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
hmm.. I wonder if also doing the clevis will make a difference. I will be totally content with using the Moab/MTR takeoffs as far as wheel and tire combo goes. I just want to make sure I get the ground clearance once all my armor is on underneath.
Author:  dgeist [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FYI CRD Frankenlift package change
Johnboy wrote:
Talked to Heather at AllJ's today. She said last week they decided to remove the spacers from the Frankenlift due to difficulty of intallation. I'm sure you can still add them, but they do not come with the pre assembled kits. Lift is ~2" now.

Note about AllJ's: phone conversation was very pleasant. She was helpful and honest...made me feel better about spending $1K anyhow...


Actually nice to hear. There is a subtle difference between the suspension/CV subframe alignment on the CRD vs gasser, so it's good to see a vendor deciding to do the right thing for the majority of their customers. Since there are fewer parts, is the price going to go down?

Also, isn't it even more like a plain old OME CRD lift at this point?

Dan
Author:  Johnboy [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dont believe the price is any lower, good point though. I have not ordered, might try a little horse tradin' when I do. Just preparing myself to let go of $1k, tough to do. I am about 1/2 scared my CRD (which I realy love) will need that $1K in repairs!! 22k miles so far and nothing other than typical recalls and 1 EGR. Kind of sad "typical" can be used in front of the word recall. Less height does make me feel better about the new suspension. It is a liberty and a daily driver, not a CJ :lol:
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Although we have a "factory" drop of the front diff...the short CV Axle on the drivers side tends to put the boot very near the clevis strut. I think the 2" is a much safer way to go. The great part about the 2" for the CRD is that the CV Axles will not be at a bad angle at all and you will retain all the stock wheel travel.
Author:  GilaMonster [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Bummer
Well, I for one survived the installation of that lift. I was a serious pain on the drivers side, removing the lower contorl arm and such to get on the new spring/shock without tearing the CV boot, but darn was it worth it. I've have excellent clearance from before and am quite happy with the handling.
I can understand their decision since I called them twice during the install just to verify that it could be done. Also, a few fellow posters here helped me along.

I must say All-Js is one of the best people to call and they stand by their product.
Author:  Heather [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi ya!

First...thanks to everyone for the kudos on the Frankenlift and on our service! :) I love popping into the LOST forum and seeing that. :D

Second... the price of the Frankenlift II Premuim kit is under price adjustment -- however, it has actually been UNDER-priced for quite some time and we have opted to keep the price down and soak up the additional cost for our customers. For now.

Here is a quick and dirty run down of the prices for the products included in the CRD Frankenlift II Premium kit -- -- pricing below is the cost of the parts, not including the labor cost to pre-assemble the struts:

2 - OME790 CRD KJ Front H/D Coil (each) - $155 pair
2 - OME 948: Old Man Emu Rear KJ Spring H/D (each) - $145.99 pair
2 - OMENS131: Old Man Emu Front Heavy Duty KJ Strut - $145.60 each
2 - Rear KJ OMEN132L Long Shocks (available only at ALL J PRODUCTS) - $84.99 each
1 - Pair - Daystar 1-3/8" x 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 Bump Stops - $25/pr
2 - Mopar Strut Plates - $96 each **CORE PART
Hardware & isolators - $22 or so each side. EDIT UPDATE: Hardware & isolators $47 per side. **Isolators are a CORE PART

By looking at the components and their individual costs, this kit should cost------
UN-ASSEMBLED, including the parts above: $1073.17
PRE-ASSEMBLED for the parts above: $1163.17

For the past few weeks, we have had the CORE parts in stock to use to ASSEMBLE the kits for our customer - we have been soaking up that cost for the customer, but we will be unable to continue to do this.

If you want us to ASSEMBLE the fronts, we would need to use CORE parts...struts plates...THIS IS THE PART OF THE KIT THAT WE ARE STILL IN DISCUSSION OVER. It's difficult to coordinate the core charges with the costs... so this is still under debate/discussoin at our shop.

Because John asked me today about how he can come to afford the kit, I was sort of wing'n it and gave HIM the option of sending us back the cores for a credit - not an option that is on our web site or an option that is really available, but just something for him to consider to help him make his decision. That was between he and I. I was giving him the kit, pre-assembled for $955.98 and when we received a core back, I was going to credit him for the returned CORES. I felt this was a good offer considering the kit is currently underpriced and returnig the cores is not a current offering.

So.... I hope I have not confused ya all. We are still working through the actual cost of this kit, how to price it, how to offer it for sale and how to be profitable on it. (We do have a brick-n-mortar shop to run with employees and everything). :wink:

So...when Quinn and I can sit down and really hash this out, the price for this Frankenlift will most definately go up. For now, we will keep the kit at its current price level. So, if you are thinking about getting the CRD Frankenlift, do it before Quinn and I have time to rehash the costs vs. sales price. :wink:

NOW...that being said, if someone were to want just the OME shocks, OME struts, OME springs front and rear and the rear bump stops, of course the price would be different. The price for just these parts (OME LIFT) would be:

2 - OME790 CRD KJ Front H/D Coil (each) - $155 pair
2 - OME 948: Old Man Emu Rear KJ Spring H/D (each) - $145.99 pair
2 - OMENS131: Old Man Emu Front Heavy Duty KJ Strut - $145.60 each
2 - Rear KJ OMEN132L Long Shocks (available only at ALL J PRODUCTS) - $84.99 each
1 - Pair - Daystar 1-3/8" x 2-1/2 x 2-1/2 Bump Stops - $25/pr


TOTALING: $787.17 for Springs/Shocks/Struts ONLY - no hardware, no strut plates - no assembling - no welding work, no isolator parts.
Author:  0311_DoC [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 
well what ever it has im going to be getting it. I just cant wait till I get home....
Author:  chrismc [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I put in my order today. Gotta take advantage before the prices go up! :D Now to pick out some tires...
Author:  Heather [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I made some minor edits to my post above. I also wanted to let everyone know that the price of the CRD Frankenlift (I or II) did go under review and the prices did change. We decided to offer a CORE charge refund for returning the 2 stock CRD top plates and the 4 stock CRD rubber isolators. The cores must be returned in good condition (reusable) and they must be returned within 30 of receipt of your CRD Frankenlift kit. The CORE charge refund is $100.

Please see the updated web page for the CRD Frankenlift (using pre-assembled OME790 springs and OME NS131 struts) here: http://www.boulderbars.com/frankenlift_crd.htm

Thanks again!! :D
Author:  nix [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
So the new Frankenlift II is $1,100 (+ addt'l shipping?)... Which now includes the hastle of sending your stock parts back... or pay a core fee of $100... and it's only a 2"-2.25" lift.

The are other 2.5" spring/strut/shock lifts with OME shocks available out there shipped for around 1/2 the price or less of the Frakenlift II.. and you get to keep your stock parts just in case you revert to stock one day (in case you want to sell the jeep) and you can sell your used lift on ebay or something and get back some of the money you spent. Your only extra cost is the $40 it takes to have a shop assemble your struts in 30 minutes.

The FLII pricing confuses me.. :?: What's the big cost differential here? Are people willing to pay hundreds more so that they don't have to go to a shop and pay $40 to assemble the struts?
Author:  jdorris [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay, this is the kind of thinking that makes companies who cater to a small market rethink why they bother in the first place. Without companies like All-J and Rock Lizard these vehicles would have very few off-road upgrades and our only opportunity would be to deal with companies that are known for lousy customer service.

That aside, who else sells the 500# 790 springs, or the 132L shocks? I did a short search on the net and found no one else who sells a CRD specific OME lift or even parts. Of the few places that do sell OME springs, shocks and struts, I found their prices to be within 20-50 bucks of All-J’s on similar lift kits for other vehicles. Of course that is comparing apples to oranges because they didn’t actually sell the parts we need. To me 50 bucks, hell even 100 bucks is worth the customer service that all of All-J's customers will attest to.

To quote All-J’s site you can get the kit unassembled…

~2" to ~2-1/4" All OME Lift Kit: $787.17
This kit is un-assembled & includes:

OME NS131 struts: $145.60 each
OME948 H/D Rear Springs: $145.99 pr
OME790 H/D CRD-Rated front spings: $155 pr
OME132L Long Travel Shocks: $84.99 each
Rear Bump Stops: $25 pr

After you figure in the 100 bucks saved in eliminating the core charge it looks like we pay about 214.01 bucks for assembly and hardware. Most shops do charge about 40 bucks to assemble. That means we pay 174.01 extra give or take a little on taxes for assembly and hardware.

So if that is more than people want to pay for assembly then they have the option of buying the unassembled kit. I figure the assembled kit is for the instant gratification folks who want to put it on straight out of the box.

That said, I would love to know what other companies are selling CRD specific lifts, because I don’t think they exist other than the 200 buck daystar pucks that reuse the same original junk.

I got on this rant because I appreciate companies who cater to the small market. It is what keeps the Liberty running with the big boys on the hard trails. Without them, respect for the Libby would be poor and off-roading would be driving on gravel forest roads instead of crawling on rocks in Moab.

Then again what do I know, I am a newbie, only have a couple posts.
Author:  palla [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Well if this thread is going to turn into a "praise to All J's" thread I for one can confirm the great customer service & attention to detail. I have recently purchased some Rubicons (Moabs as we call them) from Heather, Great customer service & willing to go the extra mile to help out a Jeeper from downunder. My Moabs should be arriving on the boat end of September & I cant fracken wait. I say boat 'cause I am in Western Australia. Thanks All J's.
Author:  skywarn [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
jdorris wrote:
It is what keeps the Liberty running with the big boys on the hard trails. Without them, respect for the Libby would be poor and off-roading would be driving on gravel forest roads instead of crawling on rocks in Moab.


i think this is the $700 statment. I stongly feel that that only out of ALL the Libbys out there only 10-20% of them are used as a real Jeep. out of those people, I feel that it would be safe to say that 99% of them are like me, slap on a lift, rubber, and a few off road lights and call it good. Yes i play in the mud, Yes i crawl over curbs and small rocks when im off road, Yes with my 3" lift i can get to a few places at my dear lease that i couldnt before. However with the left over 1%er's ( :lol: now your like a bike gang! :lol: ) they are the ones that All J's is selling to. I feel that the FLII would be far better than my 3" $250 lift in Utah anyday, BUT... the ones doing Utah, also have THOUSANDS of $$$ invested in the Jeep and a $750 FLII is just a small part of it.

My libby will never be in Utah and ill never try and "hang with the big boys", its my daily driver, its my weekend fun, nothing more. So for me there is no way i can justify spending that kind of $$$ for my libby.. so im the mean time Im very happy with my $250 3" lift.
Author:  jdorris [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that your estimate is probably dead on. There are probably only a few hundred frankenlifts out there on libbys. I am sure that most libbys never leave the pavement. I think that most that do leave the pavement don't really do any hard wheeling. I live in Oklahoma, we don't have hard wheeling here. A couple of rocky areas and lots of mud but no mountains. I am sure that 250 bucks could get me a lift tall enough to put on bigger tires and hit the local trails. I am not saying that no one should buy a cheaper lift. If some one wants to do mild wheeling then a inexpensive lift is fine. As long as you know the limitations of the vehicle you are fine. This applies to those with a frankenlift as well. The libby still only has 31's, maybe 32's and can still find itself in a tight spot, although not many.
I like the frankenlift for the shocks and struts as well as the springs. I think it improves road handling as well as off-road. At least this helps me justify the expense. Initially I looked at the daystar lift, but then I started reading posts about people adding better shocks and struts to improve the ride. As I read these posts and looked at shock prices I noticed the cost got significantly closer to the unassembled frankenlift price if I added shocks and struts. 300 bucks for the coils, 218 for the pucks. price is the same for OME shocks and struts, now i could go with less expense with ranchos, still great shocks but I can do that through all-j as well.
I certainly understand jeeping on a budget. My first build was in college on a shoestring. Some mods worked out well, others cost me in the long run. I learned as I went.
Author:  0311_DoC [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
well im just going to bypass all the BS and have All J install all my gear so I know it will get done right with all the necessary modifications etc....
Author:  Rock Lizard [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Has anyone ever assembled the CRD springs and struts, by yourself, no extra helping hands? I'll tell you one thing, $40 for a shop to put it together, they are working for nothing. I hate doing it so much, gas or CRD, that I will charge $200 easy for labor to assemble them on top of the kit installation itself, because it is a great big pain in the butt. I hate doing it, and refuse to do it for less than $200. If you can get a shop to do it for $40, get them to do it, because that is a slammin' deal. If people think they are saving labor costs by doing it themselves, especially if they have never done anything like it before, have fun. Any work I do on my own vehicle, I always have in the back of my mind how much time it takes and how much I make per hour compared to the hassle of doing it, and sometimes it is cheaper to pay a reputable company to do the labor with the right tools instead of fooling around cussing and screaming and tearing off flesh from my hands. Sometimes the extra cost is worth the ease of getting everything already preassembled so in a couple of simple hours you can get it on the road and enjoy it. As for core charges, most parts store charge these anyways so they can reuse and remanufacture parts, which helps keep customer costs down. If a part is remanufactured and sold for $150 with a $150 core charge, what do you think a brand spanking new part without a core charge would cost? $3-400 in most cases. The cost is high just looking at the cost, but look at the overall cost, and you are actually saving money. AllJ has the preassembled kits to help you save time and money on labor so it makes it easier for most people with limited tools to still be able to install the kit. Most shops charge $65-95/hour, and if you have to have a shop install the whole kit just because you can't personally assemble the strut assemblies, it just cost you $390-570 just in labor. And I would like to see anyone find a place that can assemble the exact same kit for less than AllJ. You won't, because no one else in the world can get the OME LT rear shocks and I'm pretty sure same goes for the OME CRD HD springs, except for one company and that company is an AllJ dealer anyways.

I didn't read this whole thread, just caught the tail end of it, but thought some of it to be amusing and had to add my $0.02.
Author:  nix [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rock Lizard wrote:
Has anyone ever assembled the CRD springs and struts, by yourself, no extra helping hands? I'll tell you one thing, $40 for a shop to put it together, they are working for nothing. I hate doing it so much, gas or CRD, that I will charge $200 easy for labor to assemble them on top of the kit installation itself, because it is a great big pain in the butt. I hate doing it, and refuse to do it for less than $200. If you can get a shop to do it for $40, get them to do it, because that is a slammin' deal. If people think they are saving labor costs by doing it themselves, especially if they have never done anything like it before, have fun. Any work I do on my own vehicle, I always have in the back of my mind how much time it takes and how much I make per hour compared to the hassle of doing it, and sometimes it is cheaper to pay a reputable company to do the labor with the right tools instead of fooling around cussing and screaming and tearing off flesh from my hands. Sometimes the extra cost is worth the ease of getting everything already preassembled so in a couple of simple hours you can get it on the road and enjoy it. As for core charges, most parts store charge these anyways so they can reuse and remanufacture parts, which helps keep customer costs down. If a part is remanufactured and sold for $150 with a $150 core charge, what do you think a brand spanking new part without a core charge would cost? $3-400 in most cases. The cost is high just looking at the cost, but look at the overall cost, and you are actually saving money. AllJ has the preassembled kits to help you save time and money on labor so it makes it easier for most people with limited tools to still be able to install the kit. Most shops charge $65-95/hour, and if you have to have a shop install the whole kit just because you can't personally assemble the strut assemblies, it just cost you $390-570 just in labor. And I would like to see anyone find a place that can assemble the exact same kit for less than AllJ. You won't, because no one else in the world can get the OME LT rear shocks and I'm pretty sure same goes for the OME CRD HD springs, except for one company and that company is an AllJ dealer anyways.

I didn't read this whole thread, just caught the tail end of it, but thought some of it to be amusing and had to add my $0.02.

Yes many of us have actually installed our own suspension in our garages. I am, by all means, a newbie and I did it on my own. (with the help of write-ups found on this and other forums) A FLII with pre-built front struts would have saved me, oh, maybe 1 hour of my time. If that much. I figure 15 mintues to drive to the local NAPA shop.. drop off the stock struts I just pulled, give them the new struts and shocks I want swapped out. $40 and 30 minutes later I get my newly assembled struts and another 15 minutes to get back home. I now have to do the same thing I would have to do with a FLII.. install the assembled struts. The rear suspension takes all of 45 minutes to install.

I could see how a shop would change $250 to install the *whole* suspension.. (i.e. pulling the wheels, un-doing upper a-arms, steering knuckles, clevis, battery, crd-specific equipment, strut bolts, struts, rear springs/shocks) but no way would a shop charge $250 to put the strut on a spring compressor.. turn the handle and compress the spring and unbolt the top-hat and reverse the process with the new strut/spring in place.

I guess if you are one with no alternate means of transportation (i.e. other car or a buddy) to take your stock struts/springs and new struts/springs to a shop.. the extra money spent on a pre-assembled kit might be beneficial. Maybe this is why people pay the higher price of the FLII kit.
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