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 Post subject: Chrysler Mulls European Lineup for U.S. Diesel Entry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Here is something you guys will enjoy reading, :roll: it was posted in the VW TDI forum other diesels section.

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AUBURN HILLS – During Chrysler’s “What’s new” media preview last month, global product development chief Frank Klegon shook things up by announcing the auto maker is exploring a four-cylinder diesel for North America.

Klegon didn’t provide more details, dangling the question of whether Chrysler, in the midst of an ownership transition, will pull one vehicle from its stable of European diesels or look outside the box with an all-new engine.

The man with the answers is James Weidenbach, who manages diesel applications and power train platform engineering at Chrysler.
“There’s a clear recognition inside (Chrysler) of the importance of diesel in the U.S.,” he says. “We need to figure out a way to convince the American public of that alternative.” [snicker]

Weidenbach hinted that Chrysler in fact will look to Europe for a U.S. diesel.

“From a development side, it’s much easier to use an existing product than to engineer from scratch,” he says.

Chrysler’s overseas four cylinders include the 2.2liter on the PT Cruiser, and the 2.0L in the Sebring and Avenger. That 2.0L is built by Volkswagen, which will introduce a 50-state diesel 2.0L next year on its Jetta TDI and will not require aftertreatment fluid, such as urea, to meet emission standards. Chrysler’s European diesel lineup also includes the 300 Sedan and Touring 3.0L V6, Voyager and Grand Voyager (Town and Country) 2.8L four cylinder.

“It gives us a lot of flexibility,” Weidenbach says. “The offerings we have now give us the ability to go lots of different directions.”

Weidenbach has a good grounding in what Americans may want, or may not want, having shepherded the 2.8L, four-cylinder Jeep Liberty to market. The vehicle first went on sale 2005 and was discontinued in 2006. Rated at 160hp and 295 lb ft of torque, the common rail diesel compared with the 210hp and 235 lb ft on the 3.7L gasoline V-6 Liberty. At the time, some critics were disappointed the diesel Jeep did not have superior towing capacity to the gasoline equivalent’s 5,000 lb benchmark. Still, Weidenbach has no regrets about the Liberty CRD market or road performance.

“The Liberty sold three times more than we anticipated,” he says. “It was truly a test case.”

For now, Chrysler is returning to the upscale market with the 3.0-liter V6 diesel engine on the Jeep Grand Cherokee, priced at $38,475. Grand Cherokee, 3.0-liter common rail turbodiesel 215hp 376 lb ft torque with 7,400 lbs of towing capacity.

Weidenbach notes improvements in electronics are likely to yield the greatest engine efficiencies and refinement. He cites the example of pilot injection, which opens the fuel injection nozzle to allow a tiny amount of fuel before the main injection, in an effort to decrease engine knock.
“We’re metering down to a cubic millimeter of fuel,” he says. “That’s pretty good, but I think you need to get down to half a millimeter.”

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 Post subject: Re: Chrysler Mulls European Lineup for U.S. Diesel Entry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:33 pm 
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oldnavy wrote:
The man with the answers is James Weidenbach, who manages diesel applications and power train platform engineering at Chrysler......Still, Weidenbach has no regrets about the Liberty CRD market or road performance.

That cool, now have a name to address mechanical failure complaints.

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 Post subject: Re: Chrysler Mulls European Lineup for U.S. Diesel Entry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:37 pm 
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RFCRD wrote:
oldnavy wrote:
The man with the answers is James Weidenbach, who manages diesel applications and power train platform engineering at Chrysler......Still, Weidenbach has no regrets about the Liberty CRD market or road performance.

That cool, now have a name to address mechanical failure complaints.
I thought a few here might like some of the info for legal maybe, that is also why I did bold on one comment. We were a test case!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:54 pm 
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test case :roll:



At lest when your guinea pig for a new drug they give you $15 and a brownie, and you don't pay for the pill :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Chrysler Mulls European Lineup for U.S. Diesel Entry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:57 pm 
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oldnavy wrote:
RFCRD wrote:
oldnavy wrote:
The man with the answers is James Weidenbach, who manages diesel applications and power train platform engineering at Chrysler......Still, Weidenbach has no regrets about the Liberty CRD market or road performance.

That cool, now have a name to address mechanical failure complaints.
I thought a few here might like some of the info for legal maybe, that is also why I did bold on one comment. We were a test case!!!!

Oh, they definately tested me.....almost into therapy. I wonder if its possible to recover for mental pain & suffering. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:25 pm 
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Notice they did not include the MB Grand in the article. The list of available engines did not even include it. If we are a test case, what the Grand customers? Scapegoats?

We may be forgotten about, but the Grand customers most certainly will be.

If they are not totally stupid we will see a 2.8 JK. But looking at the fact that we have no Gladiator, and have a Compass instead, leads me to believe that they are indeed totally stupid.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:34 pm 
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JK diesel was approved for the MY2010/2011 a little while back...some speculation points to the current Panther 2.8L slightly uprated with the W5A580 from the CRD KA.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:53 pm 
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MrMopar64 wrote:
JK diesel was approved for the MY2010/2011 a little while back...some speculation points to the current Panther 2.8L slightly uprated with the W5A580 from the CRD KA.
Not to likely if MB gets rid of Chrysler, MB has never liked its engines, tranny's, and gen parts being used by Chrysler.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:37 pm 
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oldnavy wrote:
MrMopar64 wrote:
JK diesel was approved for the MY2010/2011 a little while back...some speculation points to the current Panther 2.8L slightly uprated with the W5A580 from the CRD KA.
Not to likely if MB gets rid of Chrysler, MB has never liked its engines, tranny's, and gen parts being used by Chrysler.

Add to this GM buying what was essentially DCX's 1/2 of VM Motori and it becomes doubtful the economics will be favorable. Actually appears like MB is positioning to make Chrysler non-competitive in Europe once the split is done. Without an in-house diesel engine builder, MB won't have to price compete against them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:06 pm 
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For those going on about the Liberty being a test case, keep in mind they are reffering to the marketing, not manufacturing side of the vehicle. They have no need to test mechanically in the market since they have been selling this model for years in Europe.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
For those going on about the Liberty being a test case, keep in mind they are reffering to the marketing, not manufacturing side of the vehicle. They have no need to test mechanically in the market since they have been selling this model for years in Europe.


I agree, lets not make something out of wha's not.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:00 am 
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Reflex wrote:
For those going on about the Liberty being a test case, keep in mind they are reffering to the marketing, not manufacturing side of the vehicle. They have no need to test mechanically in the market since they have been selling this model for years in Europe.
That is Europe and not the US. There is a HUGE difference in the markets, Europe is and always has been diesel friendly. Not the US, even before the GM screwup finding a US diesel car was impossible. In Europe only old fuddy duddys drive sedans with auto trannys and people buying high end luxuary cars, in the US it is hard to sell a manual tranny in almost any car or truck except to a small select group of buyers.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:47 am 
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oldnavy wrote:
Reflex wrote:
For those going on about the Liberty being a test case, keep in mind they are reffering to the marketing, not manufacturing side of the vehicle. They have no need to test mechanically in the market since they have been selling this model for years in Europe.
That is Europe and not the US. There is a HUGE difference in the markets, Europe is and always has been diesel friendly. Not the US, even before the GM screwup finding a US diesel car was impossible. In Europe only old fuddy duddys drive sedans with auto trannys and people buying high end luxuary cars, in the US it is hard to sell a manual tranny in almost any car or truck except to a small select group of buyers.

Perhaps I read you wrong, as I agree with this statement. My reading of your statement was that you were implying that Chrysler was inexperienced with diesels and that we all inadvertantly participated in the equivilent of a 'beta test' without proper notification of that fact. My point was that Chrysler has plenty of experience with diesel, and diesel Jeeps, just not in this market.

If thats not what you meant, then we are saying the same thing. The reference to it being a test IMO was implying that they were seeing if it would sell in this market, not whether or not it was a mechanically sound product.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:30 am 
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The comment about "dissappointed with towing capacity" is funny. The difference in towing with the 3.7L gasser vs towing with the 2.8L diesel is night and day. In the Euro market, I think the CRD Cherokee (Liberty) is rated at 7,500#s. The shorter wheelbase is why it is only rated at 5000# stateside I think.

Then the Grand Cherokee, with a similiar wheelbase as the Liberty, is rated at 7400# with the 3.0L CRD. I think they missed the test market results. It was the PRICE of a diesel SUV that attracted buyers to the CRD...$25,000 vs $38,000...they missed the mark. Just build the Gladiator with the 2.8L CRD and see how many you sell...they will not be able to keep up with the demand.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:12 am 
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I think the Engineering/Manufacturing on the CRD's was as good (or bad) as what Chrysler has done in Europe and Australia - the big failure was the lack of trained dealer support - If they had sold through the dealerships that sold & supported Cummins - I think we would have had far fewer problems.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:12 am 
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ATXKJ wrote:
I think the Engineering/Manufacturing on the CRD's was as good (or bad) as what Chrysler has done in Europe and Australia - the big failure was the lack of trained dealer support - If they had sold through the dealerships that sold & supported Cummins - I think we would have had far fewer problems.
That failure of trained dealers was very key with the design problems on the Liberty that were never really major problems within themselves was a HUGE MISTAKE for Chrysler & the buyers. I had excellent trained diesel tech's for Sprinter & Cummins, but none were were sent to Liberty CRD training till after '06 models were out. Thank goodness the VM & MB engines were enough like tech wise that it wasn't any problem.

We were a beta test in the fact that Chrysler/Jeep wanted to see if women would buy diesel SUV and if so then they would move the diesel to large proffit GC and away from the Liberty. Couple of things to remember here guy's: the Liberty was mainly a female market until the CRD option came out: also it was the least expensive way to test the market for a diesel in a non working vehicle market which is mainly to scoccer moms & dads with no real use for a SUV other then as a daily driver and to MAYBE tow the family boat or small camper trailer.

So lets not forget that Chrysler really did put the screws to all who bought the CRD option, and knew they were going into the sales event IMHO. And now with the sell off of Chrysler (or attempted sale deal isn't done yet) by Damlier/MB those who bought the GC CRD will be in the same boat that Liberty CRD owners are now.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:52 pm 
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ATXKJ wrote:
I think the Engineering/Manufacturing on the CRD's was as good (or bad) as what Chrysler has done in Europe and Australia - the big failure was the lack of trained dealer support - If they had sold through the dealerships that sold & supported Cummins - I think we would have had far fewer problems.




The new Chrysler told to their dealers that they have to inprove their image or they will close them down. So maybe we are heading for a good relationship.

Nescosmo. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:10 pm 
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nescosmo wrote:
ATXKJ wrote:
I think the Engineering/Manufacturing on the CRD's was as good (or bad) as what Chrysler has done in Europe and Australia - the big failure was the lack of trained dealer support - If they had sold through the dealerships that sold & supported Cummins - I think we would have had far fewer problems.




The new Chrysler told to their dealers that they have to inprove their image or they will close them down. So maybe we are heading for a good relationship.

Nescosmo. :lol:


I know one just down the road, by the shores of a certain Lake, that I'd nominate for the first closure!!! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:22 pm 
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I can think of words strong enough to describe Chrysler's leadership but I'd get banned from the site. Instead I'll let your imaginations run wild with four letter words, impolite gestures, and flung bodily fluids. My point is this:

Jeep employees should buy the brand and run it themselves. Harley Davidson employees did it so it can be done. I think they would do a better job running the company, they couldn't do any worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:45 am 
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going that route would probably make a big difference in the Jeep lineup, gladiator anyone?

really, a bunch of Jeep heads running the brand and I bet there would be a lot of more capable rigs stock, no compass and that other little hunk of poo. :roll:

consider the bump in magazine adds featuring the rubicon wrangler after cerberus took the helm, maybe they are going to trim the fat (compass, etc) from the lineup, I think that is the way to go :twisted:

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