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Another CRD being "lifted" - lift pump that is
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23487		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MightyCRD [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Another CRD being "lifted" - lift pump that is
Well, took me 3 stalls and that was enough - I ordered the KennedyDiesel lift pump today. Hopefully the lift pump wiring will work on mine - once it's all done and working, I'll post pics ans stuff.

Who else is planning on installing a lift pump?
Author:  UFO [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another CRD being "lifted" - lift pump that is
MightyCRD wrote:
Well, took me 3 stalls and that was enough - I ordered the KennedyDiesel lift pump today. Hopefully the lift pump wiring will work on mine - once it's all done and working, I'll post pics ans stuff.

Who else is planning on installing a lift pump?
I am hanging on your every post. I will definitely go this route, and possibly a Racor filter head as well.
Author:  crdmike [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another CRD being "lifted" - lift pump that is
MightyCRD wrote:
Well, took me 3 stalls and that was enough - I ordered the KennedyDiesel lift pump today. Hopefully the lift pump wiring will work on mine - once it's all done and working, I'll post pics ans stuff.

Who else is planning on installing a lift pump?


Just did mine; it's a must!

Double check for any leaks around the fuel head heater. Also, make sure that heater is unplugged; it's JUNK!
Author:  Stan Wright [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have the Racor 245 assembly w/ heater, Kennedy pump, and fuel coolers setting in my garage. Just waiting on some free time to get it done. I haven't decided whether put the fuel cooler in the grille (like Ranger1) or the back (like retmil46). Hell, I might do both.
Author:  crdmike [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stan Wright wrote:
I have the Racor 245 assembly w/ heater, Kennedy pump, and fuel coolers setting in my garage. Just waiting on some free time to get it done. I haven't decided whether put the fuel cooler in the grille (like Ranger1) or the back (like retmil46). Hell, I might do both.


Mich had an accident that smashed his grill which is why he elected to mount it back by the transfer case. I can understand that one. I'm going for the grill myself with the aux frame trans cooler below it.
Author:  MightyCRD [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stan Wright wrote:
I have the Racor 245 assembly w/ heater, Kennedy pump, and fuel coolers setting in my garage. Just waiting on some free time to get it done. I haven't decided whether put the fuel cooler in the grille (like Ranger1) or the back (like retmil46). Hell, I might do both.


I think I'm going to mount mine in the back - I seem to recall that is where they are mounted on the Duramax, but I haven't confirmed it. I am going to run a Derale frame-rail tranny cooler like this one: http://tinyurl.com/3e3cqs

I'm going to mount it in the back right in front of the fuel tank. Eventually, I might change the fuel head out for the Racor - right now, I'm running the CAT filter mod and would like to keep it if the stupid fuel head doesn't go south.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
crdmike wrote:
Stan Wright wrote:
I have the Racor 245 assembly w/ heater, Kennedy pump, and fuel coolers setting in my garage. Just waiting on some free time to get it done. I haven't decided whether put the fuel cooler in the grille (like Ranger1) or the back (like retmil46). Hell, I might do both.


Mich had an accident that smashed his grill which is why he elected to mount it back by the transfer case. I can understand that one. I'm going for the grill myself with the aux frame trans cooler below it.


What kind of safety device is being used in case of accident to stop the fuel from becoming a flame thrower???
Author:  Saber [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok I'm lost. Whats the deal with the "lift pump" whats it do? Sorry haven't been on much
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlackLibertyCRD wrote:

What kind of safety device is being used in case of accident to stop the fuel from becoming a flame thrower???


Darn you have asked this twice now and no answers.

I would think that 1)while it is not nice to have fuel and flame mixing it is more of an issue on a gasser than a diesel simply because open diesel is not near so combustible but it is still an issue and 2)if this circuit was built for a gasser or even for a 2.5 litre CRD then that logic should be in the circuit just like it would have been in its previous life. Now we just need someone to smash into something to test it. :wink:
Author:  Pablo [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:51 am ]
Post subject: 
With these fuel coolers...

Does one need a bypass valve to disable them in winter? I can't imagine anyone from Minnesota wanting to "cool" their fuel when its -40.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Pablo wrote:
With these fuel coolers...

Does one need a bypass valve to disable them in winter? I can't imagine anyone from Minnesota wanting to "cool" their fuel when its -40.


When I'm in NW Washington I sure it don't need a fuel cooler even during the summer. I would skip this step.

Cowcatcher

I don't think someone would need to crash to test the circuit, just a key on engine not running test. If the circuit comes on for a few seconds with the engine not running and stays on with the engine running, then there is some safety built in. I thought that maybe someone may had checked this before they installed thier pump and can enlighting us with thier find.
Author:  MightyCRD [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:32 am ]
Post subject: 
My understanding is that is exactly what the built-in lift pump wiring does -

According to Larry R. (he found the wiring for the lift pump)

"It seems to be working fine with a lift pump. It primes before starting and runs all the time the engine runs."

So my guess is the power being shut down when the engine isn't running is part of the safety, which is how most fuel injection systems for gassers work. Some add extra measures (Ford has a switch that'll cut power in the event of a collision IIRC) but as long as the pump cuts off with the motor, it should help. Just my 2cents ....
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:46 am ]
Post subject: 
According to crdmike, he tested the operation of his hooked up to the connector under the rear seat. It did exactly that, stayed on for 15 seconds with key on and then shut off if the engine wasn't running, stays on with the engine running.

As far as the fuel cooler in colder climates - yes, that thought has occurred to me as well. Too many factors and different local climates to give a simple answer on that one.

The three ideas I have had if a fuel cooler would be overkill for wintertime - 1. a manual bypass on the cooler, 2. a thermostatically controlled bypass valve if such a beast is available, 3. some type of cover, like the radiator flap that truckers use in extremely cold climates, to reduce or completely cut off air flow to the cooler.

Perhaps we should ask the Duramax and VW TDI owners, who do have fuel coolers installed OEM, how their rigs handle cold weather and about any design features that were included for cold weather with the fuel cooler by the manufacturer.
Author:  litton [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tell me again why we need a cooler with a lift pump mounted near the tank and don't need one without a lift pump. Surely a 4 psi centrifical pump does not add that much work energy.
Author:  BankNote4X4 [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
litton wrote:
Tell me again why we need a cooler with a lift pump mounted near the tank and don't need one without a lift pump. Surely a 4 psi centrifical pump does not add that much work energy.


The kennedy lift pump shouldn't be run over 140 degrees. Also cooler fuel evaporates less, so less "air" pockets. So it would still be a benefit without the lift pump to an extent. I believe it was posted that the CRD could get to 170-180 degrees in fuel temp.
Author:  litton [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I can see undehood temps getting to the 140 range but not the tuel tank itself. What am I missing?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
litton wrote:
I can see undehood temps getting to the 140 range but not the tuel tank itself. What am I missing?


The heat is not coming from the lift pump, it is being heated under the hood and then the excess heated fuel is returned to the fuel tank to be repumped back to the motor. In this circular process the fuel heat builds and the documented capture of air that then seems to escape from the fuel near the filter head causing much of the air problem.

The lift pump helps solve the problem by slightly pressurizing the system from tank to filter head but some feel that reducing the fuel temperature on the return to the tank is another piece of the puzzle.
Author:  litton [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
If a CRD has a return line, I would expect the volume to be minimal. Tough to think that the temp from the fuel tank is that high. Still, if folks have discovered that is the case, I reckon it is. Just difficult to believe the tank can hit 170, heck you wouldn't be able to touch the tank, lines or anything.

When I get home, I check and see if I can find my contact themometer and stick it on the tank.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
The issue gets worse as the fuel level drops in the tank on a very hot day. Of course you can't see the return easily on a CRD but on my 3 cylinder 45 HP German John Deere tractor with a conventional pump I would guess there is three times the fuel coming through the return as going through all the injectors at any given time. It is a steady stream of perhaps 1/2 the size of a pencil.

Since I live in a cold climate and seldom see summer temps above 100 degrees I will not be consideriing a cooler unless I find it to be the only solution. I will likely add the lift pump though and perhaps check out the work others are doing on a bypass air bleeder. I am not sure I exactly understan that issue though to make the jump yet.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:11 am ]
Post subject: 
BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
What kind of safety device is being used in case of accident to stop the fuel from becoming a flame thrower???


Larry that tracked down the wire under the seat took some voltage readings. He stated that turning on the key caused the pump to run for a time then shut off then resume after it was running. If we could get the engine to stop with the key on without getting air into the CR3 that would tell us :lol:
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