I'd argue that the initial design was good but that the execution was flawed (kinda like the entire CRD program)
most people don't have a problem - but the few who do have ongoing problems - they never really get fixed.

I think most of the problems are in the manufacture of the filter head - if they have pinholes or porosity - you'll get air leaks - but if your's molded correctly it's Okay, at least for the standard design life of 100,000 miles - after that no one in Chrysler cared.
Those can be hard to troubleshoot for a good mechanic - add in mechanic only trained to read troublecodes and never trained how to think through the problem - and it only gets worse.

also the design of the pump was for filter changes only - not for constant use, it could easily be fine if used once a year and self destruct if used once a week.

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

I will reply from the reverse perspective, I have used bio periodically at as high as B100 (1 tank) and I have not had leaks or detectable air in my fuel.

Back to Remital's response to the question I posed regarding pressure. There is no reason to believe the engineers would even have considered significant pressure testing in a vacuum system, even the prime pump, or had they done so to have done it in a situation resembling real life situations with high heat under the hood, in the fuel, corrosion on the heater pins creating resistance and deterioation to the housing from associated heat there. Engineers are just plain folks not Gods (Like doctors some engineers may consider themselves Gods). I would offer "O" rings on space shuttle boosters as an example.

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Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

There is a cautionary statement in the manual that says:
"CAUTION- do not force the plunger when priming the fuel system. Damage to the plunger or fuel filter/water seperator will result."

So yes, I don't think it is reasonable that excessive pressure can be applied to this system from the primer.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited, Black 205k Miles (Timing Belt Changed at 100k and 200k), GDE Eco-Tune, Carter in-tank lift pump
2005 CRD Sport, Black - Ingested Valve at 170k miles R.I.P.

There is a cautionary statement in the manual that says:
"CAUTION- do not force the plunger when priming the fuel system. Damage to the plunger or fuel filter/water seperator will result."

So yes, I don't think it is reasonable that excessive pressure can be applied to this system from the primer.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited, Black 205k Miles (Timing Belt Changed at 100k and 200k), GDE Eco-Tune, Carter in-tank lift pump
2005 CRD Sport, Black - Ingested Valve at 170k miles R.I.P.

Does the manual say to pump the primer then vent the air? This procedure is suggested here numerous times but it makes no sense to me. Vent the top of the filter then push the primer until fuel comes out would work would it not?

Well, thats how I do it.
I crack the bleeder, push the plunger down all the way, hold it, and close
the bleeder. Repeat till a solid stream of fuel comes out.
I bleed brakes the same way.

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U.S. Army Retired

having read all of this, I am inclined to think that maybe a lot of problems are created by the owner. Not every case, to be sure. Checked with Stanadyne

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/index.asp

and posted Joe's comments at this

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=23629

Stanadyne has checked out the CRD fuel setup and determined that most, if not all, problems are related to the quality of O ring seals in the filter head assembly. The overall design of the fuel system in the CRD is NOT flawed per them. They seem to think that Chrysler is aware of the seal problem and is spec'ing out better seals for the assemblies. We'll see about that.

But he was real serious about not messing with the CRD setup! No lift pumps, coolers, etc. Look... Stanadyne is in the business of selling fuel system related products. If they thought there was a problem with the CRD setup, they sure wouldn't hesitate trying to sell me something. Instead, Joe said that the system is not flawed and does not need to be messed with. Again, only the seals of some filter head assemblies a problem.

Now... if some here got an issue with this, call him (618-345-8901). I spent quite a bit of time going over what is being discussed here about this issue. Since Stanadyne a major player in the fuel injection and filtration business, I think they would know more than most of us.

My .02 worth.

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*************************************
Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

Good enough for me...these folks do know what they're talking about. In this case, it's time to leave well enough alone. Thanks for sharing this info with us.

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2006 Libery Sport CRD, Lt Kakhi, nicely equipped
*****GDE Hot Tune at 38,879 miles
*****Stock TC.....for the time being!!

How does he explain that the filter head can hold vacuum overnight and be full of air in the morning? A lift pump will take away this vacuum as well as an orfice or check valve to prevent over pressuring. I wouldn't fix anything thats broke but I believe that the fuel system has more problem than o-rings.

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2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

As I mentioned on another thread, sounds like DC saw which way the winds were blowing, and had a "discussion" with Stanadyne and Joe long before any of us called them.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

"Unintended consequences" can certainly rear up with more complex systems, but where the issue is air and a less than perfect fuel head, a pusher pump is a set of suspenders to go with a belt. Especially if you regulate the pressure to a few psi with a bypass to the tank return, you will fix the air problem and introduce no other problems. Seems like a modification with a clear benefit.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

"Well enough" will eventually kill all our CRD's pumps and most likely after the warranty period. They need to do somthing and the sooner the better. Even if they replace the filter heads for ones with new seals they will be admitting the problem. And if that is not the problem it might open the door for a longer warranty on the pump. I've owned upwards of 20 VW diesels, some very used I only needed to put a lift pump on one that had over 500,000 miles on it For a $50 car it sure ran good with the correct amount of fuel to the high pressure side of the pump just as I know my crd would They've never used a lift pump and use a clear line from the filter to the pump. On my tdi's there was always a very small amount of bubbles but never a problem with air

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Wasn't that the same thing that was said about the Dodges with the VP44 until they all got up to around 75K and DCX had to finally recognize that there might be a problem with fuel delivery?

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

So Stanadyne now works for Chrysler also??? That's funny, since they used a Bosch fuel system on the crd. You would think he would point out the weaknesses of the Bosch system at the least. Other than improper gasket material the man says it's fine. But wait, I forgot, Chrysler called and threatened not to use Stanadyne's fuel system if he talks!?

Quit messing with fuel system and you'll have far less problems. That includes pumping the crap out of the primer. I do believe that primer pump has caused many of the problems here. I have stated that before and still believe it. I'm not saying people haven't had defective filter heads. It happens. I am stating it is more than possible the fuel system is entirely adequate and more reliable without modification.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

So, many people have weighed in and some have even been so kind as to check into this with some in the filtering proffesion. I will summarize the options and list the pro's and con's mentioned:

1) Unplug the fuel heater plug:

Pro's: abosolutely avoids the possibility of the heater element burning out. Genereally recognized as not needed in warm weather. Potentially illiminates outgassing of fuel.
Con's: You probably need this in cold weather. Fuel gasses probably re-condense under the pressure of the post-pump system. Won't do a darn thing if the leaks are elsewhere. The element is supposedly self regulating (turns off at 85, on at 45) so you technically shouldn't have to do this..but many people have had failures. Dialectric grease use on plugis suggested if you do leave it plugged in.

2) Install a lift pump:

Pro's: Best bet to eliminate hard to find air leaks. Common sense says that neg-pressure is going to always be pulling in air through seals as they age..For part options see other threads.
Con's: Installing a lift pump was tried in a CRD mock-up by MrMopar and they found it to be a bad thing. Standyne reps said the same. You are your own warentee...

3) T in some sort of "air catcher" on the exit hose from the filter

Pro's: Could catch air before it gets to the pumps, improving performance. Some part numbers of pics would be nice to see.
Con's: This is a stop-gap measure, not a solution. A air-hammer type (plumbing people chime in) catcher would have to be purged manually, there have been no viable suggestions for a self-purging air catcher (can't send back to return line like other vehicles).

4) Fuel cooling

Pro's: Hot fuel produces outgassing, or very hot fuel can vaporize. Cooling units have a history in vehicle with helping this problem.

Con's: Will do nothing for air leaks. true fuel vapor or gasses might well re-condense under the pressure of the common rail, so there may be no point. Not recommended by Standyne.

5) Gasket changes

Pro's: Most sources seem to agree that there were some gasket issues, and that leaks were fixed with replacement gaskets. This seems to be backed up by Standyne. Gaskets in question could be filter gaskets or some internal-to-the-filter puck gasket. Part numbers and descriptions would help here.

Con's: The internal gaskets might be a serious PITA to get to, and you might cause more damage getting in there. Needs more testing and input. Is not a complete solution

6) Reduce over-priming when purging

Pro's: Apparently, this device is flimsy enough that the manual says over-priming can harm it. So be gentle.

Con's: None, but this is probably not the root of most of the problems!


6) Move the filter head lower?

Pro's: Lowering/angling the filter could reduce air build-up in the head area, reducing chance of element burn-out.

Con's: Not really a solution to the root problems. And air will build up somewhere else instead


Feel free to comment on this and ad info where needed (part numbers especially)

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD w/all the fixings
Elephant Hose, MAF (ORM), Amsoil Airfilter, nice when I get to drive it
1 EGRreplacement, but never again.
99.5 FrankenJetta TDI (R.I.P.): being turned into diesel hybrid!
99.5 Replacement Jetta TDI: deal of a lifetime, EHM, some other stuff

How about replace your filter head if it leaks and quit whining about it...

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2005 CRD Limited, Black 205k Miles (Timing Belt Changed at 100k and 200k), GDE Eco-Tune, Carter in-tank lift pump
2005 CRD Sport, Black - Ingested Valve at 170k miles R.I.P.

X2

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

And if the new one leaks? How bout the one after that......

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It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox

They are only $150. Just buy a case.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

What if your modified filter setup crashes your fuel pump?

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2005 CRD Limited, Black 205k Miles (Timing Belt Changed at 100k and 200k), GDE Eco-Tune, Carter in-tank lift pump
2005 CRD Sport, Black - Ingested Valve at 170k miles R.I.P.