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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:42 pm 
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MACKJ wrote:
truckbouy2 wrote:
I just ordered some Viton 75 -333 o'rings to try in place of the puck seal. The porosity should be eliminated if the Viton-75 o'ring works.


I have been holding off installing the Cat filter until I can source a Viton seal for the puck. I run Bio occasionally and the best elastomer material for fuels, particularly Bio, is Viton.
Now that you have confirmed the size (as did Greg the Lubrication Specialist) how about someone find a supplier in the US to make a batch of the rectangular section O ring for interested forum members. 8)
I have already checked out some suppliers here in Oz and they have costed quantities up to five at A$40 each, which is quite expensive.
If you Google "lathe cut rings" or "rectangular O ring" you will find numerous suppliers in the US.

Size would be 2.750" Outside diameter x 2.450" Inside diameter x 0.25" high or wide. Commercial machining tolerance on the size and aim for about 70 to 85 Duro hardness.

What do you guys think?


Are these confirmed sizes? I will check with my friend that owns a mold shop. He molds things like this all the time. I will get a price worked up. I will build the mold myself so the only cost would be material price and a little mold press time.

If anyone is interested I'll get back to you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:26 pm 
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curtis wrote:
MACKJ wrote:
I have been holding off installing the Cat filter until I can source a Viton seal for the puck. I run Bio occasionally and the best elastomer material for fuels, particularly Bio, is Viton.
Now that you have confirmed the size (as did Greg the Lubrication Specialist) how about someone find a supplier in the US to make a batch of the rectangular section O ring for interested forum members. 8)
I have already checked out some suppliers here in Oz and they have costed quantities up to five at A$40 each, which is quite expensive.
If you Google "lathe cut rings" or "rectangular O ring" you will find numerous suppliers in the US.

Size would be 2.750" Outside diameter x 2.450" Inside diameter x 0.25" high or wide. Commercial machining tolerance on the size and aim for about 70 to 85 Duro hardness.



Are these confirmed sizes? I will check with my friend that owns a mold shop. He molds things like this all the time. I will get a price worked up. I will build the mold myself so the only cost would be material price and a little mold press time.

If anyone is interested I'll get back to you.


I am definitely interested and keep me on your mailing list!!
The sizes have been confirmed by truckbouy2 and Greg Landuyt (LanduytG) on this forum, so two independent sources here.
2.75" OD x 2.45" ID x 0.25" will give us a slightly thicker seal for the head to puck interface with a better "crush" and therefore better seal....and then add final security of a little O ring dressing (loctite or similar) :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:09 am 
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I am not having any trouble with the Cat setup, but I would definitely buy the added security.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:23 am 
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I sent a couple pics to you Mr.Ripster of the fuel filter tube where I added the small o'ring.
And I did give the wrong large o'ring number for the puck seal. I posted -333 V75 it should have been -332 V75.
I changed "TP's" fuel filter yesterday and added a 0-30hg vacuum gauge in the line from the filter to the I-pump.
After adding the small o'ring to the filter tube a while back and now changing the fuel filter (seems as though quite a few had the surgies & buckies after the filter change) the Girl (The Princess) with the sensitive nervous system reports all is STILL well, smooooooooooooooooooooooth........

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:18 am 
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truckbouy2

I'm the main drver of "our" crd but my "princess" of 40 some years is more sensative of what the crd is doing then I :lol:

Sounds to me like our excess air problems can be cured by just two V75 "O" rings on the filter head. Maybe Greg can add them to the cat filter kit :idea: To me that would be a easier solution then a lift pump and cooler :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:32 am 
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So far all I added was the small o'ring on the fuel filter tube of which I believe Mr. Ripster is going to post the picture for us. I sent them to him this morning.
I ordered the wrong o'rings for the puck seal replacement test. Had to reorder. But as I said, Mzzzzzzz Sensitve NS says its running better than when she picked it up new. This Little Tractor has had no flashes or F****37s, nothing. There has been no issues with bucking/surging/starting since August. Wouldn't that be something if that was the cure.....Wow...But then, the value of these little buggers will go up and then I won't be able to get one for play. By the way Joe, "The Princess" is a Buckeye from Columbus and we're headed to Delaware, OH to see "The Major" and "Miss J" (TP's Kinfolk) in just a couple of weeks.....

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:37 am 
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Will This Oring work? It Cost $16.43 ea. but you have to buy a pack of 10.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... O=28692087

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:39 am 
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Check this place....
-332 V75
https://www.oringsusa.com/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:53 am 
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curtis wrote:
Will This Oring work? It Cost $16.43 ea. but you have to buy a pack of 10.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... O=28692087


Looking at their page I think you get a bag of 10 for $16.43 but I could be wrong.

Joe

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
curtis wrote:
Will This Oring work? It Cost $16.43 ea. but you have to buy a pack of 10.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... O=28692087


Looking at their page I think you get a bag of 10 for $16.43 but I could be wrong.

Joe


Yep, Thats right, I didn't read into it enough. $16.43 total for a pack of 10 orings.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:56 pm 
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Will post photos soon, waiting for them to be separated out of the email so that I can right click and download them, sorry
for the delay.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Ok here they are: For Roger/Truckbouy2


Image

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:41 pm 
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curtis wrote:
Joe Romas wrote:
curtis wrote:
Will This Oring work? It Cost $16.43 ea. but you have to buy a pack of 10.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... O=28692087


Looking at their page I think you get a bag of 10 for $16.43 but I could be wrong.

Joe


Yep, Thats right, I didn't read into it enough. $16.43 total for a pack of 10 orings.


Does this mean you fellas are leaning towards the standard round section or still looking at a rectangular section? I had already found the British standard round ring (BS332) which is identical to the one truckbuoy2 had found but the dimensions worry me a little.
I think the wider round section will have a tendency to distort or be cut by the thinner groove of the puck/head. It may even try to roll out of the groove as you tighten things up. Generally when you design a groove to suit a round section O ring the groove is wider than the ring. This allows the ring to expand sideways as it is compressed and you also aim for about 10% of the cross section height to create the required pressure on the sealing faces.
The cross section of 0.210 for the 332 ring is a reasonable increase (60 thou or 1.5mm)with respect to the 0.150 of the current rectangular section width so the O ring may want to extrude itself out of the groove as it is squeezed up.
Then again the slight increase in height between the OEM rectangular seal 0.19 to 0.24 or 0.25" is also about 60 thou but it is not in both directions as with the round seal.
I am thinking out aloud here but I have my concerns with the round seal solution and I want to get it right first time and not touch it again!
However a $1 or $2 round section O ring would be reasonable to try if you guys are willing to experiment!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:56 pm 
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Thanks Riptster and truckboy! We shoucl do a sticky write-up for that.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:05 pm 
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BiodieselJeep.com wrote:
Thanks Riptster and truckboy! We shoucl do a sticky write-up for that.


No put it in the CRD tech section. Makes it easier to find.

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 Post subject: I followed Truckbouy2 O ring mod today.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:54 pm 
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This morning I set off to find some diesel compatable "O" rings so I could do Truckbouy2's mod and ended up at a diesel repair shop. While there I found out there has been some seal troubles caused by ULSD. They had never seen or herd of our CRD's and wanted to know how and where I got it :roll: The fellow gave me a variety of "O" rings left over from some Cat kits. I then went to NAPA and got a filter, NAPA 3647 (WIX 33647) for $29.99 plus tax. After lunch I started by taking the housing off the jeep. Then I removed the filter and it was TIGHT :shock: I caught all the fuel from the filter and there was no sign of any water or dirt. Mine only has 10k on it. I removed the center nipple and found the threads in the housing were full of green locktite and only chasing the threads with a tap was I able to get it all out. THIS IS A MUST :!: If there was any loose sealent it would be a stright shot into the pump :cry: I used the old puck gasket, a filter gasket is too thick and will not allow enough thread engagement. Found a suitable sized o ring and used blue locktite and put it all together. I cleaned it with carb cleaner and blew it out several times along the way. I found the hoses could still be turned even with the clamps tight so I put two on each hose. I believe our fuel hoses are being softened by ULSD :cry: I used the output port to vacume a gallon of fuel throught the assembly then put on the line to the pump. A couple pushes of the primer and it fired right up :lol: I have driven it 100 miles so far and it idles quieter, starts quickly and seems to pull better and didn't smoke under full throttle on the interstate with the lights on in the car behind me. The output to the pump is the highest spot on the housing so I didn't use the bleeder valve. just the vacuum on the output hose barb. I did not loosen the banjo fittings as the copper washers are a one shot part.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:33 am 
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I haven't noticed any hose swelling or deterioration. I do however still see the puck gasket covered with fuel sweat (I blow it dry each am b4 she leaves) each evening when the Princess arrives on the scene. I just got back from the cold north and received the -332 Viton O's. After the "Great Journey" back to oHIo I'm going to install one and see what shakes (Literally). When I installed the filter tube, I used a "who knows what it's made of" O', just testing you know. I ordered some 1/2"OD x 3/8"OD Viton's. Had to buy the "Family" pack, so if this continues to work, I sure wouldn't mind dispersing the excess bounty. I got to drive "TP's" Libbie over the weekend. The tank was less than a 1/4 full , we zoomed thru a long stretch of curvy roads, I put it back into overdrive, and at 60 mph the bugger bucked a couple of times. I shut the overdrive off for about a 1/4 mile and then switched the overdrive back on. No more surges. Filled the tank, "TP" drove home Sunday night from the north and back and forth to work and reports all is well....again. Ulsd is somewhat hard to find everywhere in the forgotten north so I fill plastic fuel cans and dump them in so she can get back south. I noticed upon filling the cans the ulsd foams like warm beer. Even running the nozzle slow. A 5 gallon can will fill to about half the rest will be foam. It takes while to fill. I wonder if running low fuel (1/4 or less) in the tank gets the fuel sloshing and foaming where it's sucking air and fuel out of the tank. See if you notice any issues when the fuel in the tank gets down to a 1/4 or less.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Truckbouy2

I forgot to tell you there's a good B-20 source in Deleware :? Next time your there it's just north of Rt 42 within site of Jeg's automotive's warehouse by the water tank. It's unmanned and requiers a credit card. I'm told he blends his own fuel. My o ring gave me improved mileage, quicker starts and improved preformance. That's untill this morning when I filled up. 3 stops and about 4 miles is was back to a slower starting (second revolution instead of first revolution). Possibly filling it up mixed in a lot of air. I noticed it foamed pretty good as I was filling it :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:42 am 
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It seems that when any bucking was present on "TP's" Libbie it was in OD and at 60mph. "Miss Sensitive Nervous System", told me last nite that when at 60mph in OD the Jeep seems sluggish, like it doesn't like 60. If she uses OD above 62-63 things are fine. My question is... since there is no lift pump on this varmint to supply fuel to the I'pump, could the rpms at 60 or less in OD be just at the point of too low to run the I'pump to pull fuel from the tank in the amount REALLY needed by the engine, maybe causing a fuel starvation problem along with air leaky fuel head? I have a '03 Dodge with a Cummins, and so far, all the poop from the Cummins main office I've read, seems to continually make BIG reference to lift pumps, lift pump locations, pressures, etc. to make sure that the I'pump has ample supply when needed. Mr. Retmil's addition of a lift pump could be the answer to this Jeep design quirk to overcome foamy fuel, low pump driving rpm, and seepy/leaky fuel filter heads. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that the new OVERPRICED Grand Poobah Diesel Jeep has a lift pump.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:17 am 
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Additionally, 60 is where the TC drops out of lockup after it locks up at 62. The newer, F37, software seems to have more proplems here. I'm with you on needing a liftpump but am not ready to redesign the whole fuel system.

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