Ok.... before you throw rocks, I am only the messenger. I just got off the phone with Joe Boyer (618-345-8901) at Stanadyne. Talked with him about replacement fuel filtration, lift pump, air in fuel, etc with our CRD's.

The Bosch injector pump on our CRD's is a high quality pump that is designed to "suck" the fuel from the tank and thru the filter. No lift pump or inline pump is recommended. The problem with the filter head leaking seems to be mostly from the type of O ring seal used. The newer vytanol(?) type seal is what should be in the head, as the earlier type of seals tended to break down quicker with the new use of ULSD and biodiesel with their solvent effects.

If those of you who are bound determined to replace filter designs, add lift pumps, etc to the CRD, I would recommend you go to Stanadyne's website and get the location of one of their diesel specialist shops in your area. Then have them look over the system and make a determination on what you should do.

Joe STRONGLY advised not to make any changes to the system to quickly. He felt the "law of unintended consequences" would kick in. Stanadyne has checked out the CRD setup. They do not feel that any major changes be made to the system. Maybe the quality of filter or the o rings may be suspect, but the design is not flawed. He also stated that there is no need to cool the fuel to eliminate air and No lift pump needed or recommended. All of their research has pointed to basically faulty o rings that were not of high quality material that were the primary cause of air getting in to system and causing loss of prime.

Now, that being said. I will get out of the way and let you guys fire away with opinions and criticisms. I am not a techno wizard in this area so I went to someone who knew more than me. Now if you want to dispute what HE said, go to him. I just want to enjoy the discussion.

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Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

Viton, I believe, is the name of the material.

Thank you. I was going on sound and didn't ask Joe to spell it.

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Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

So.. if we start to have problems with the fuel system it could be fixed as easily as replacing an o-ring when we replace our fuel filter? Has anybody replaced their o-ring yet? I'm a newbie when it comes to all these air in the fuel threads.. I haven't had any problems yet and can't relate to what you all are going through.. but would like to be prepared.

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'05 Liberty CRD
'05 Jaguar S-Type R

Did you discuss with him that removing the sulfur from diesel fuel "may" have lowered the vaporization point? Couple that and the fact that a vacuum lowers the vaporization point further. It could explain why we have the problem this summer and not last.

If you did discuss this with him did he say that vaporized fuel will lubricate our cP3 as good as diesel in the liquid state?

He did mention the problems associated with ULSD. However, again, only problem they ever found was the use of older material seals. The viton seals would be the only change that he would recommend. The vacuum via the setup we have in the CRD is not the problem. That is according to him.

I am sure you could bring up all your concerns, ideas, and what not to him. That is why he pulls down the big money at Stanadyne. They have dealt with the low sulfer issue for longer than you and I (since Europe went to it before we did). He did not feel that ULSD or bio the problem. Only in that the older style seals, having been exposed for some time to LSD or off road diesel, would not hold up when exposed to ULSD. This is why they went to viton seals 10 years ago. He mentioned that the Bosch system we have in the CRD is a good system and this Bosch type system has been running on a "vacuum or suction" design for a long time. It is not an issue.

He clearly stated that lift pumps, fuel coolers, etc were not necessary and strongly advised against using them. If you want to do these things, I have no dog in that hunt. Do what you want. I knew I was not knowledgable enough to make such decisions, so I went to those that are in the business and know. On first glance at these discussions, I also thought a lift pump or inline pump might be a good option. I was told by Joe not to do it.

I am sure, that if there was a change that would benefit me, Joe would have referred me to Des Moines Diesel (Stanadyne shop nearest me) and had them go over and sell me a different setup. Instead, he stated that there is no major change needed to the CRD. He did concede that a better filter may be an option, but that is a different discussion.

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Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

With the inlet throttled design of the CP3, it is constantly operating with a vapor/fuel mix. What it's doing to regulate the output is choking the inlet of fuel, meaning that the pistons inside the pump suck so hard that they partially vaporize the incoming fuel, then recompress it and send it out. Believe me, the Cat common rail pump I work with operates on the same principle. Vapor bubbles will not hurt the pump, but large amounts of air do.

I agree that our system should be able to operate without ingesting air if only it had good quality seals and slightly better design. A lift pump should not be necessary. Also, I've heard it said somewhere around here that a fuel cooler will eliminate air bubbles. It won't. Air doesn't turn into fuel when it's cooled.

Also, Don't forget that it seems like a number of air leaks are from the faulty heating element melting the filter puck.

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Curtis
Lost # 3914
2006 CRD Limited
Sp Diesel Module
Samco Boost Hoses
K&N Performance Air Filter
Straight Pipe (No muffler)
SEGR
Mopar Skids
Cummins In Tank Lift Pump
245/70R 16 Wild Country AT's

What Curtis said, but which came first, chicken/egg. Does the heater plug fail because of a leak in the puck or does the puck leak because of resistance in the plug and overheating? Or does that part of the puck fail because it has been over pressurized by enthusiastic priming. Inquiring minds want to know.

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Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

Mine has had problems with surging from day one, mile one and there's no melted heater plug. I really think every crd has air problems and some owners are just not aware of it. I'm kind of used to it now but my wife will out of the blue say "there it goes again"

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

40,000 miles - no surging, no burnt heater plug -

That's why I think its a variation in the manufacturing process - not the root design

I just don't know if there's any leeway - I mean the fact that it hasn't had a problem doesn't mean it won't have a problem in the future, will it develop a leak with the next fuel filter change? or next summer when we hit 60 days aver a 100?

I'm not in a rush to change things - but if there's solid fix - I'll do it

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

I've not had one bucking/surge problem since my filter unit was replaced in the end of June 07. It leaked at the heater plug when primed.

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08 Elantra SE daily driver
2001 F-250 powerstroke

Me too, 39000 miles, only had a problem with water/fouled filter around 20k. Changed that for the CAT and couldn't be happier.

I've been very keenly following the threads and can relate to a lot of the issues, but don't know if they are normal or not. For example:

I can bleed air anytime I want too, but never even tried to bleed it before I changed the filter. Normal or Not? beats me, no one here seems to know either.
I notice that when I'm on the road and my tank is half full or less, the CRD starts to get sluggish, Filling the tank seems to bring back the HP.
I notice when I shut off the CRD to run an errand, the CRD starts a little harder and is sluggish until I've gone a couple of miles. Started checking as suggested by others, and the filter head and filter body seem pretty hot under the hood. Is it heat soaking? maybe. If I stop to fill up, it seems to not be a problem.

Anyway, I haven't had any major problems, am very happy with the CRD, but know that the issues are real, just not sure how serous they are.

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2005 CRD "Ol' Blue"
Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.

I have had all that and shuddering/bucking since day one. Getting fuel stops it sometimes, bleeding it makes it better for a little bit. Hotter it is the worse it is, but I have seen it do it on long trips in winter in Utah, so it does it when its cold out too. It is driving me nuts. I would look for a lift pump or o-ring off of the space shuttle Colombia on e-bay if it would stop this annoying d4mned air in the fuel thing! But I am not willing to spend any money guessing on what will or will not solve the problem-- I want to know why and I want it fixed. I am mad enough now. If I buy a fuel cooler or lift pump and it still does it I will be all the more p!ssed. If I ever find the guy from Chrysler who made the decision to send these things out like this and not recall them, I will be going to jail. Pray for my soul.

Pablo,

Did you replace the filter head with a new stock unit? Will the dealership do this for you under warrenty?

I've had the head recently replaced (burned out heating element) under warrentee. I have the heating unit unpluggged. I still collect some air that can be primed out, but not nearly as much as before. I am not inclined to change it, but I can't believe that they think it is "good".

-I am still able to believe that a few heater units could have been from a bad batch.
-I am also able to believe that bad o rings can leak.

But I am never going to believe that they could not have expected air/gasses to collect in the highest point in the fuel system, thus leaving the heating unit "high and dry" and potetnially burning out and damaging the head. That is not a good design.

Unplugg your heaters, best simple option.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD w/all the fixings
Elephant Hose, MAF (ORM), Amsoil Airfilter, nice when I get to drive it
1 EGRreplacement, but never again.
99.5 FrankenJetta TDI (R.I.P.): being turned into diesel hybrid!
99.5 Replacement Jetta TDI: deal of a lifetime, EHM, some other stuff

Mine sounds alot like bugnout's CRD, I had dealer replaced stock filter head for a leak at heater element at 18000 miles. The diesel tech(works on Dodge pickups mostly) at dealship said you should not have air in the system! But I can purge air any time I walk by the Jeep. There has to be a leak but I nor the tech can find it. In short it runs good most of the time when I get a a stumble or a miss I bleed the system this happens every 2 to 3 weeks. No big deal but no AIR in the fuel system would be great.

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Stump doctor

Landy Front hitch
2006 CRD all stock
scan guage 2