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CEL after fueling with code 1648?
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Author:  allenj [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  CEL after fueling with code 1648?
First, the immediate problem:

Approximately two runs after getting our last tank of diesel (ULSD from a major brand, well used station), we got a check engine light on our 2005 Liberty.
I checked it with my basic scanner and got a code 1648 which displays twice in a row. I don't see this code anywhere in the book that came with the scanner
or on Old Navy's standard OBD-II list. We also got this before after putting fresh diesel in the tank (see below). Does anyone know what this error might be?


Now for the whole gruesome story:

We bought this vehicle used 3 months ago with 38k miles on it. About two weeks after getting it, I pulled and cleaned the MAP sensor, which was thoroughly gunked up.
The next time we drove it, the CEL came on, and we took it to the dealer, who read 3 problems: a bad key insert, intermittent starter relay fault, and glow plug controller fault.
They replaced the starter and glow plug control module.

The CEL reappeared a week or two later, also for some sort of ignition related problem (they didn't say exactly), and they replaced the PCM. Might be the same as below - I don't have
notes for this one.

A month later the CEL came on again, also shortly after filling up with diesel. I had purchased a cheap scanner by then, and saw that the code was the same one listed above - 1648.
The dealership read it, also, and said they didn't know what this code was. Star support didn't know, either, and said it 'they've never seen it on this vehicle and it shouldn't be happening'.
They guessed a faulty PCM again sending bad codes, and after another week's wait replaced it.

This PCM had a problem that caused the cruise control not to work, and they ordered another one. That was the end of July, and it MIGHT be here this weekend.
Keep in mind that this is not a daily driver, we have only driven it once or twice a week and on a camping trip.

Luckily, since we started having problems so soon after purchasing the vehicle and they all seem related, the dealer has covered all costs even though the vehicle is out of warranty.
Still, at this point I have very little confidence in the ability of Jeep to fix their vehicle (or to build a quality vehicle in the first place).

Thanks for your help.

Edit: Initial mileage was 38k, not 28k.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
How is your vehicle out of warrantee?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
This site says it is a Data Bus Powertrain Malfunction. Another said it was a failed ECM.

http://bluefox280.tripod.com/id15.html

Some CRD's have had trouble with a chaffed wire bundle around the fuel filter head and another spot, I think the fron drivers side some hot stuff, that have caused issues. I would start there.

And what Sam said. You should have a transferrable 7/70 warranty unless it was wrecked.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
This site says it is a Data Bus Powertrain Malfunction. Another said it was a failed ECM.

http://bluefox280.tripod.com/id15.html

Some CRD's have had trouble with a chaffed wire bundle around the fuel filter head and another spot, I think the fron drivers side some hot stuff, that have caused issues. I would start there.

And what Sam said. You should have a transferrable 7/70 warranty unless it was wrecked.


Correction, "totaled." Accident alone wont cause invalid warrantee, being registered as salvage will.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sir Sam wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
This site says it is a Data Bus Powertrain Malfunction. Another said it was a failed ECM.

http://bluefox280.tripod.com/id15.html

Some CRD's have had trouble with a chaffed wire bundle around the fuel filter head and another spot, I think the fron drivers side some hot stuff, that have caused issues. I would start there.

And what Sam said. You should have a transferrable 7/70 warranty unless it was wrecked.


Correction, "totaled." Accident alone wont cause invalid warrantee, being registered as salvage will.


Sorry Sam. Wrecked to me is bad like yours, damaged would mean a mere accident. :roll: :wink:
Author:  allenj [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry, I should have clarified - it's out of the standard 'bumper to bumper' warranty, it is still under powertrain warranty, which we did have transferred to us. Some of the initial problem spots were apparently not considered under powertrain and they weren't sure about the current issue (because they don't know what it is), but because we had bought the vehicle from the same dealership they are
covering it anyway.
Author:  allenj [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
This site says it is a Data Bus Powertrain Malfunction. Another said it was a failed ECM.

http://bluefox280.tripod.com/id15.html

Some CRD's have had trouble with a chaffed wire bundle around the fuel filter head and another spot, I think the fron drivers side some hot stuff, that have caused issues. I would start there.

And what Sam said. You should have a transferrable 7/70 warranty unless it was wrecked.


Thanks Dave, I will forward this info to the dealership when the new PCM comes in (CRDs have a PCM instead of an ECM, correct?). If the PCM/ECM was at fault, I would think that having it replaced already would have fixed it, although obviously the current unit has its own problems, ie no cruise control. I wouldn't even know where to start on the Data Bus Powertrain Malfunction - as a computer geek it sounds to me like its referring to the data bus the PCM plugs into, which sounds pretty bad as it would be a fairly integral part of the vehicle!

Do you have any links regarding the wire bundle chafing? I did a couple of quick forum searches but didn't turn up much except this, which is a start:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=11114

I wonder if I might have caused or aggravated some wire chaffing when pulling the MAP sensor to clean it, as there's a pretty sizeable wire bundle right there that I had a bit of struggle to move in order to get access. I've checked the wire bundles already and so did the dealership (supposedly), but maybe we weren't looking in the right places.
Author:  tim wulf [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Unbolt the filter head . The wiring bundle is behind it. The filter bracket has sharp verticle edges on it and the bracket pushs up hard against it. Inspect the wiring bundle under good light with a magnifing glass and repair any nicks in the insulation. File down the rough edges on the bracket and find some padding to protect the wiring bundle.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Allen,

Earlier than that post but after the first notices about the chaffing at the filter someone posted about the one mentioned here on the left side, down low toward the front and gave a pretty good description of where to look. I don't recall anyone other than that one poster who had the problem and they brought it up as a comment in another thread.
Author:  kb61751 [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  It happened to me.
The only problem with my 2006 CRD was the engine wire harnes, just behind the fuel filter bracket. The wire bundle was too low, and got cut from the bracket the holds the filter on.
Author:  allenj [ Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Update: The PCM was replaced by the dealer last Monday (8/27), which fixed the cruise control problem caused by the last replaced PCM.
They agreed that if the CEL came back, the next step would be to replace the wiring harness. The CEL came back on yesterday with another 1648
(again, 2-3 trips after fueling), so I'm making an appointment to get that new harness.
Author:  allenj [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, the head mechanic at the dealership (who they claim is the guru for the area) spent 3 days examining the wiring harness with a fine tooth comb,
checking proper current at all plugs, grounds, etc, and didn't find a problem. He even borrowed some other poor customer's CRD to compare them
side by side. Resistance on all glow plugs also checked out OK. The problem is that once the problem occurs, it doesn't continue to occur on every start,
so the mechanic can't pin down the problem at the time it exists.

Chrysler 'customer satisfaction' rep isn't willing to spend any more money on it, so if the problem comes back again our next option is to give it to the
mechanic for as long as it takes to have the problem occur while HE is driving it, so he can stop wherever he is and check all leads for shorts etc (this from
a discussion with the mechanic himself).

Final option is to try our best to get rid of this POS, which is sounding more and more tempting!

To be continued...
Author:  curtis [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
allenj wrote:
Well, the head mechanic at the dealership (who they claim is the guru for the area) spent 3 days examining the wiring harness with a fine tooth comb,
checking proper current at all plugs, grounds, etc, and didn't find a problem. He even borrowed some other poor customer's CRD to compare them
side by side. Resistance on all glow plugs also checked out OK. The problem is that once the problem occurs, it doesn't continue to occur on every start,
so the mechanic can't pin down the problem at the time it exists.

Chrysler 'customer satisfaction' rep isn't willing to spend any more money on it, so if the problem comes back again our next option is to give it to the
mechanic for as long as it takes to have the problem occur while HE is driving it, so he can stop wherever he is and check all leads for shorts etc (this from
a discussion with the mechanic himself).

Final option is to try our best to get rid of this POS, which is sounding more and more tempting!

To be continued...


I would Insist on a new Wire harness. I bought my CRD brand new in 06 and 2 weeks after owning it, it started randomly blowing inejtion fuses. After a couple of trips to the dealer and them telling me the wiring and connectors were all "fine" I finally convinced them to replace the wire from the fuse panel to the injectors and even thought the old wires were "fine", I never had anymore problems. its been 24,000 miles of pure fun driving my CRD. It is the best jeep I ever bought. Great fuel economy and Massive power on tap....
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
curtis wrote:
I would Insist on a new Wire harness. I bought my CRD brand new in 06 and 2 weeks after owning it, it started randomly blowing inejtion fuses. After a couple of trips to the dealer and them telling me the wiring and connectors were all "fine" I finally convinced them to replace the wire from the fuse panel to the injectors and even thought the old wires were "fine", I never had anymore problems. its been 24,000 miles of pure fun driving my CRD. It is the best jeep I ever bought. Great fuel economy and Massive power on tap....


Finally, a happy CRD owner. :P
Author:  allenj [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Update
After another week and a half in the shop the Jeep came back with a new starter switch (the mechanic had traced a voltage drop during the problem to there, but it didn't fix the problem) and, finally, a new wiring harness! The dealership gave it back to us to test, we all crossed our fingers, but a few days and 25-30 starts later the CEL came back on again with the same code. Previously it had been coming on every 10-15 starts, but a lot of the recent ones were so close together they may not count (trailer hookup for a camping trip over the weekend).

I've been told that the head mechanic who has been working on this has been consulting with 'diesel engineers at the highest levels of Chrysler' and had a couple more things to try if the wiring harness didn't fix the problem. I don't know what they are, but I guess we'll find out. That pretty much sums up Chrysler's support at all levels - 'we don't know what the problem is, let's try replacing this...'

Our original service rep doesn't want to work with us anymore, but we've put enough pressure through the sales manager onto the associate service manager that he is working with us directly now and still eating the cost of all this diagnosis. As soon as they STOP eating the cost of all this diagnosis we'll stop taking the Jeep back for service and just drive it around with the CEL on and big magnetic lemon stickers on it.
Author:  skywarn [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
ive got a ques...

when this code comes up, does the Jeep act any diff?? can you "feel" a prob when the CEL comes on?

I dont mean to step out of line here, but a unknown CEL poping up that does not cause any drivabilty probs. is in my opinion a long ways away from it being a lemon and a POS.

And from what your saying about your dealer... "eating" the cost... well thats a LOT more than most dealers have done for some other CRD owners.

I have a CEL all the time... its the darndest thing... :twisted: (orm) i just look at is as my preformance indacator light :lol:
Author:  allenj [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I recognize that we are fortunate compared to other Jeep owners in that the CEL does not cause any driveability problems.
I don't feel any difference when it comes on. We're mainly pissed because we specifically asked at least twice if the vehicle had any problems before we bought it, and were assured that it was OK because it had 'been through the service department'. Well, obviously if it had they didn't even bother to plug the computer into it, because at least one or two of the original trouble codes detected a week later had been there a while. Also, this is the same problem that occurred during the initial 'warranty' period, they just haven't fixed it yet.

I would like to clarify that for the most part we don't have any complaints about how the dealership where we bought the vehicle has handled our service.
Both sales and service have been polite and done a lot for us without us having to put too much pressure on them. It's just that this problem has existed since we bought the Jeep (and no telling how long before), it's been over 5 months and many service visits and days in the shop now, and Chrysler still has no clue what the problem is or how to fix it. Technically it can't be legally considered a lemon since we bought it used, but if this had been a new vehicle it would fall under the lemon law in NC under the 'multiple service visits to fix the same problem' clause. Our problem is with Chrysler/Jeep engineering, not the dealership.

With all due respect, an ORM that I intentionally trigger myself on a vehicle that is otherwise reliable doesn't make me nearly as uncomfortable as one that is repeatedly triggered by some electrical problem that even the manufacturer can't figure out. Even if someone could finally say 'look, there's what's causing this and it won't affect anything' I might be content to let it go, but not 'we have no clue why that code is triggered, but as long as you can drive it just cross your fingers and hope it never indicates a real problem'.

Other than this rant, the Liberty does exactly what we bought it to do - tows our 3000 lb popup camper while getting 20 mpg. There's still nothing else out there that can match that. When there is, we'll buy it (a Tacoma with a small diesel would be great!).
Author:  Jim Friese [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Allenj how many miles does your CRD have on it? They come with a Bumper to Bumper 3 yr or 36000 mile and a 7/70
so if you are under 36,000 miles then you are totally covered. have a nice day. :D
Author:  Pote [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jim Friese wrote:
Allenj how many miles does your CRD have on it? They come with a Bumper to Bumper 3 yr or 36000 mile and a 7/70
so if you are under 36,000 miles then you are totally covered. have a nice day. :D


I was going to ask this. You said it had 28K on it and only had it for 3 months. In those three months only drove it a couple times in a week and ONE camping trip. Then with all the CEL problems, its been in the dealership alot in those three months. Have you put on 8K miles in three months already? seems you should still be within warranty 3yrs/36000 miles no????
Author:  allenj [ Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry, I must have either made a typo or misremembered. The CRD had 38000 miles on it when we bought it, so it was just out of the bumper to bumper warranty. We did transfer the 7/75 powertrain warranty. Because we bought it from the dealership it did come with a limited warranty (30 days, I think?) and the problem started occurring during that time frame. We now have 42500 miles on it.
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