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| Dead CRD http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24241 |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dead CRD |
I have had intermittent high and low boost codes in our CRD for a short time now. Yesterday I left for a 3400 mile trip and just over 100 miles into it I started losing power and had to pull off the road. Had it towed to the nearest dealer and left it. They called early this morning and asked about the Racor fuel filter. I explained the original started leaking and I had to replace it and this was the only/best one available. He also says my fuel is contaminated. I expressed my surprise because I always get fuel at the same place in fact I had also fueled up my Dodge Ram the same day. He says well it's contaminated. I ask contaminated with water, dirt, what? He doesn't know, it's just contaminated. I ask if they've done a fuel pressure test, boost test, anything? No they haven't. I inform him it's a 5% biodiesel blend and maybe that's why it looks different. All along I've been asking if they had even pulled codes because the check engine light was on, all along he says no. I called the fuel station and nobody else has had problems, now he starts saying well I'll talk to the tech and my manager and get back to you. Eight hours later I call him and he says they drained all the fuel and fueled it with regular diesel and has been running a bunch of tests per STAR. I ask what tests, he doesn't know. I didn't authorize any of this, and they don't seem to have a clue what's going on. Do they think I'm going to pay for thier education? What now? Tigafila |
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| Author: | onthehunt [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would get a sizable sample of the bad fuel before they dispose of it. Last guy that had bad fuel couldn't back it up with a sample and ended up eating the cost of repairs. Good luck on the non-oem filter too. They could easily lay all of this on you or your fuel supplier. |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:48 pm ] |
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The problem with that is I'm 1600 miles away! If they would have left it at contaminated fuel I would have paid them one hour diagnostic time and towed it out of there and had the fuel supplier eat it. They can't tell me how it's contaminated or how they determined that and now obviously they have changed thier tune because they are looking elsewhere. Tigafila |
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| Author: | BiodieselJeep.com [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't know if this will help but b5 looks, smells just like other diesel. |
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| Author: | Jeger [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
They are going to have to prove there was contaminated fuel in there in order to blame it on that. And proof to me would mean pulling a sample with me watching. I dont think thats possible anymore now is it? |
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| Author: | BiodieselJeep.com [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'd be worried that there was air in the system...AGAIN. Don't want to blame your wrenching, but if that Racor was leaking air in, or a seal failed, that would fit your description of 'I just started out and it died'. Were you going a while? Did you try to prime it? |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I was over 100 miles into the trip when this happened. I did try bleeding it on the road & there was no air at all. The Racor has been on for 5 to 6 thousand miles with no problems at all. The service writer told me yesterday they were doing all of this per STAR and never asked me to authorize anything so as far as I'm concerned STAR or the dealer is picking up the tab. They told me yesterday they had drained all of the fuel and flushed the lines as well as other testing which I asked about and he didn't know what tests they had done and a whole day later I have heard nothing.....funny I'm not hearing about contaminated fuel anymore. The thing I think is really funny is taking all of the time to drain the tank etc. instead of disconnecting the supply and return lines at the injector pump, attaching some lines run into a can of diesel and checking it!!! I was a tech for 8 years (but I haven't told them) and If I had to prove my theory about contaminated fuel I certainly would have done that first. I think they are looking at the wrong end of the horse so to speak because of the codes and lack of boost. I think the way to go is to wait for them to call me at this point, any thoughts? Tigafila |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Update |
I got a voice mail from the service advisor this morning "just wanted to update you, we've ordered a catalytic converter for your jeep. It was plugged and we disconnected the exhaust before the converter and it runs good. We should have the part in a couple of days. The fuel was contaminated, it had a orange tint to it." I called him back and said "great, you finally found the problem." He adds another comment about the fuel and I said "it doesn't sound like you know much about biodiesel blends, they add a biocide to it to keep it from growing mold, it's normal for it to have a orange tint." He drops the subject and says he'll call me when they get the part. In my second phone conversation with him I asked if they had checked codes, fuel pressure and boost, he said no, if they hadn't been so hung up on something that looked out of place they could have saved a lot of time. They better have the tank full when I pick it up or there will be problems, and if he mentions the contaminated fuel again I will unload on him! What lab did you send a fuel sample to, what tests did they run on the sample? Where are those test results? Where is the fuel you removed? Was the 2 micron absolute filter plugged by the contaminated fuel? Explain to me how the fuel plugged the converter? Any other ideas for questions I should ask? How do I make sure thier hangup doesn't get noted on the RO and affect me down the line? Thanks, Tigafila |
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| Author: | panda-52 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
So at this point do you have any idea of what the problem was? Obviously they don't seem to have a clue. |
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| Author: | Kniggit [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Obviously they think he has more money than brains, like any other car dealer. |
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| Author: | BlackLibertyCRD [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:19 pm ] |
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Kniggit wrote: Obviously they think he has more money than brains, like any other car dealer.
If it's a pay job not warrenty, the fix will be the highest cost. Once the dealer wanted to rebuild the trans in my Durango instead of servicing it because it would jerk on the first shift on a cold morning. I later took it to a trans shop and they flushed the fluid with an exchanger machine. That cure the problem saving me $1,400 for what the dealer wanted for the rebuild. What a ripoff a dealer is. 
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| Author: | tigafila [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I haven't authorized anything, the only thing they told me is STAR is having them do all of this and that tells me STAR is picking up the tab. Tigafila |
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| Author: | Jeger [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
You honestly havent signed a thing? This will get real interesting should they decide it wasnt warranty work 
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| Author: | BiodieselJeep.com [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There is no way contaminated biodiesel, or any other fuel, could suddenly cause a Cat Conv to clog. That is ridiculous, and these guys are idiots. When you get contaminated fuel it plugs the fuel filter and starves the engine. This can happen in the tank over a day or night if enough water is in the fuel and it doesn't have an additive, an algae grow in there, even in regular diesel. Typically the algae is red or black, not bright orange or day-glow. I honestly can't think of a way ANY weird fuel could suddenly clog a Cat C on one tank. However, I am sure there is a LONG list of reasons a problematic engine can start making more soot, but it would take some time to clog it. My guess is that replacing the Cat C isn't going to solve the root problem that is MAKING the clogging soot. Oil blow-through combining with soot is my strong guess. What a bunch of morons. |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Update |
I got a call from the Service Advisor today and this is the basic dialog: SA "We got the converter today and installed it and the jeep is running much better. I have the converter here and its real nasty looking all black and carboned up and nasty looking from the contaminated fuel." Me "OK I've got to stop you right there, I'm sick of hearing about contaminated fuel, the fuel is not contaminated." SA "The fuel is contaminated, I've got a sample right here on my desk." Me "What lab did you send the fuel to to have it analyzed and what tests did they perform" SA "Uuuuh we didn't send it to a lab, its just contaminated" Me "It would run just as well on the original fuel as its running now." SA "I know it would, its just contaminated" Me "Did it plug the fuel filter?" SA "No." Me "Did it ruin the fuel injectors?" SA "No." Me "I have the same fuel in my truck from the same day at the same place and it's fine and unless something settled out of the sample or there is water in it I don't want to hear any more about the fuel!" SA "The tech said it was contaminated" Me "I'm starting to think the tech doesn't know s#%t about diesels or diesel fuel" SA "I was just calling to ask if we could keep it till Monday to make sure there was no damage done to the turbo" Me "That would be fine, I'm still out of town" SA "Thanks, I'll call you Monday" What a bunch of idiots, I feel bad for the SA who has to keep repeating the line the stupid tech tells him, but you'd think sooner or later he'd realize it has no merit! Tigafila |
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| Author: | retmil46 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You know why they're staying with the "contaminated fuel" line - so Chrysler and the dealer can stick you with the bill. Contaminated fuel = no warranty = tech gets paid shop rate. From what you've related so far, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that fuel sample suddenly disappears or a few extra ingredients get added to it to "prove" that it was contaminated. All the service dept horror stories over the past few days, and people wonder why mine hasn't seen the inside of a dealer service bay in 1 1/2 years - have a few stories of my own from recent times past.
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| Author: | tigafila [ Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think I've heard the last about the fuel, a sample drawn without me watching would probably lead to a lawsuit. I haven't ok'd $1. All of the work was directed to be performed by STAR. I just don't want any mention of the fuel even on any warranty paperwork because I don't want it to cause something stupid with warranty work in the future. Tigafila |
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| Author: | Jeger [ Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Pull a sample of the fuel from your truck to keep. Do you have the receipts proving you filled both vehicles on the same day? |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Update |
The dealer was supposed to drive the jeep to make sure the turbo wasn't damaged and call me Monday, no surprise I got no call. I called this afternoon and the service advisor told me he drove it and the check engine light was coming on and they were getting codes so they ordered a turbo for it. I asked what codes they were getting and he said "uuuuh uuuuum uuuuh I think it was turbo inop, but its under warranty". I asked "are they the same codes that were in it when I brought it in?" He said yes. What a bunch of idiots! Tigafila |
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| Author: | tigafila [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Final (hopefully) Report |
I finally finished my job out of town and stopped on the way home to pick up the CRD. The service advisor was very nice (I do realize he knows nothing and is just caught in the middle between a tech who knows nothing about this vehicle and me) and showed me the paperwork. The fun began when they had worded the repair order that the first thing they did was replace the converter, job B was the vehicle still ran bad so they replaced the fuel, flushed the lines and it ran fine!!!!! Job C was: getting a check engine light, boost code, replaced turbo. After a lengthy discussion he pointed out to me that line B did not have a warranty code and doesn't go to Chrysler. I still wasn't ecstatic, but there wasn't much I could do. I asked to see the turbo and he brought it out. It actually looked fine, the only noticible thing from the outside is the actuator is siezed SOLID. The turbine spins freely with barely any endplay. I asked twice to speak to the tech and he never surfaced, probably best for them. Then I asked if the fuel tank was full and the fun really began. He said he asked his manager and he said no. I said you'd better get him down here, just the fact you asked him to fill it shows that you knew it was the right thing to do. After talking to the manager and telling him how draining the fuel was nothing but a waste of time and misdiagnosis not to mention that on the first phone call I asked if they checked codes, boost pressure, or fuel pressure and they hadn't he said "there's a station about a block down, follow me there and I'll fill you up". I know that the actuator must have been starting to sieze for some time as the CRD is a whole new animal. There is a lot more turbo whine than there was new, but it runs great. Tigafila |
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