LOST JEEPS :: View topic - For us Suncoast owners, is there a way to un-F37 the TCM?

Now that I have a Suncoast torque converter which is stronger and more durable than the stock converter, is there any way to undo the badness that the F37 recall flashed into the transmission control module (TCM)? I haven't seen anyone mention a way, but it sure would be nice to figure out how to get the original transmission programming back.

- Chris

InMotion probably can't do it... but some tranny shop has to be involved in souping up the RAM trucks and HEMI chargers with similar/same Chrysler transmissions and computer systems. I was thinking more along the lines of a tranny programmer that lets me stay in 4th and lock the converter, lock on downhills, etc.-- but getting some power back would be nice too.

[Oh man, the idea of better tow/haul behavior in this rig just makes me drool...

- Chris

Ok, I know absolutely nothing about our transmission.
What model is it?
What other vehicles use it in this 5 speed config?
How much of the shifting is controled manually through the selector lever?
How much is controlled electronically by a solenoid?
Ok, here is what I'm thinkin.
IF, all the clutch packs and bands are actuated electrically with a solenoid,
then all the shifts could be controlled externally without the TCM.
If this is true, such a device could already exist as a diagnostic tool.

I have used such a tool before with other manufacturers.

Every day when I drive home I say "You know what this thing really needs?
The ability to controll ALL shifts manually."

Here's a list of vehicles using our 545RFE or it's little brother the 45RFE The 45RFE is a 4 speed version, different prograning same hardware.

Models:
2005 - 2006 (DR) Ram Truck
2005 - 2006 (HB) Durango
2005 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty / Cherokee
2005 - 2006 (ND) Dakota
2005 - 2006 (WK / WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 (XK) Commander

I got them here:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... php?t=8517

Joe

Yeah, I know a 6 speed manual would be best. I'm just trying to think
outside the (gear) box.

Chris has a good point. Is the dealer really that much of an enemy after the warrantee is out? Has anyone tried asking for a flash of the old code?

Can we at least find out which flash is the one wanted? Maybe MrMopar64 has an idea?

I will ask the local service department on my next visit.

Cant hurt to ask!

I was hoping the new JK would have the upgraded 545RFE and then we would be able to get the TCM flashed from that, as well as get newer internals from that beefed up tranny. It does not look like that is the case as the new CRD JK has the MB tranny in it. I don't know about the KK.

The dealer is kinda powerless. In order for the dealer to flash, they have to connect directly via "the internets" to the mothership (actually the STARSCAN network-- or whatever). If they lose the connection during the install, they get to start over again. So they only get what Chrysler/DC gives them at the time of the flash and DC's software will not let them store copies of flashes to keep laying around. Plus, it sounds like each download has its own DRM encryption code and unique registration number that gets assigned to your VIN. This is what InMotion can't crack (at least not easily). This way if someone does copy and hack a flash-- hooking it up to STAR could rat them out.

Author:	chrispitude [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	For us Suncoast owners, is there a way to un-F37 the TCM?
Now that I have a Suncoast torque converter which is stronger and more durable than the stock converter, is there any way to undo the badness that the F37 recall flashed into the transmission control module (TCM)? I haven't seen anyone mention a way, but it sure would be nice to figure out how to get the original transmission programming back. - Chris

Author:	Endurance [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: For us Suncoast owners, is there a way to un-F37 the TCM
chrispitude wrote: Now that I have a Suncoast torque converter which is stronger and more durable than the stock converter, is there any way to undo the badness that the F37 recall flashed into the transmission control module (TCM)? I haven't seen anyone mention a way, but it sure would be nice to figure out how to get the original transmission programming back. - Chris Buy a performance programmer, like the SP Diesel module.

Author:	BlackLibertyCRD [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:
What will the SP Diesel module do for the TCM????

Author:	AZScout [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:	There is no current fix for F37
There is currently no way to undo the F37. There is no inexpensive way to break the encryption and though there is a possibility of doing a fix through the hardware, one has to get through the epoxy Chrysler fills the TCM with for waterproofing and the current hardware link may still not be compatible after the necessary hardware changes. Plus, the hardware changes are theory only. This is after a talk with InMotion Tuning. I had two TCM's, both being F37. I was advised that if I remove all the epoxy and send it to them, they will take a look and see what the possibilities are. It will take a lot of man hours though and they do not come cheap. So, the ugly stepchild, sister of the Liberty stepchild has to put on a lot of makeup. I love her anyway.

Author:	danoid [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:10 am ]
Post subject:
I got 'lucky,' the dealership did not flash my transmission during the recall.

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Author:	ATXKJ [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:
AZScout - did you ask them about the possibility of doing a blanket copy of the non F37 TCM and doing a blanket write onto the F37'ed TCM ? - no edit so no encryption issue - copy/write the entire chip.

Author:	AZScout [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes, and he wasn't sure if the hardware hookup that he has is compatible with the hardware in the TCM. Thats why he told me to wash the TCM with some type of solvent that will get rid of the epoxy but not damage the hardware and send it to him. He can then check to see if the link will work. I haven't had the time to take apart the TCM yet...

Author:	Pablo [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:
InMotion probably can't do it... but some tranny shop has to be involved in souping up the RAM trucks and HEMI chargers with similar/same Chrysler transmissions and computer systems. I was thinking more along the lines of a tranny programmer that lets me stay in 4th and lock the converter, lock on downhills, etc.-- but getting some power back would be nice too.

Author:	chrispitude [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:32 am ]
Post subject:
Pablo wrote: InMotion probably can't do it... but some tranny shop has to be involved in souping up the RAM trucks and HEMI chargers with similar/same Chrysler transmissions and computer systems. I was thinking more along the lines of a tranny programmer that lets me stay in 4th and lock the converter, lock on downhills, etc.-- but getting some power back would be nice too. Oh man, the idea of better tow/haul behavior in this rig just makes me drool... - Chris

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:37 am ]
Post subject:
chrispitude wrote: [Oh man, the idea of better tow/haul behavior in this rig just makes me drool... - Chris X2, pass the drool towel Mine sucks pulling my 3000 pound camper. Any little grade and it's downshifting 2 levels and reving 2500-3000 rpm's

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Ok, I know absolutely nothing about our transmission. What model is it? What other vehicles use it in this 5 speed config? How much of the shifting is controled manually through the selector lever? How much is controlled electronically by a solenoid? Ok, here is what I'm thinkin. IF, all the clutch packs and bands are actuated electrically with a solenoid, then all the shifts could be controlled externally without the TCM. If this is true, such a device could already exist as a diagnostic tool. I have used such a tool before with other manufacturers. Every day when I drive home I say "You know what this thing really needs? The ability to controll ALL shifts manually." Yeah, I know a 6 speed manual would be best. I'm just trying to think outside the (gear) box.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:
flash7210 wrote: Ok, I know absolutely nothing about our transmission. What model is it? What other vehicles use it in this 5 speed config? How much of the shifting is controled manually through the selector lever? How much is controlled electronically by a solenoid? Ok, here is what I'm thinkin. IF, all the clutch packs and bands are actuated electrically with a solenoid, then all the shifts could be controlled externally without the TCM. If this is true, such a device could already exist as a diagnostic tool. I have used such a tool before with other manufacturers. Every day when I drive home I say "You know what this thing really needs? The ability to controll ALL shifts manually." Here's a list of vehicles using our 545RFE or it's little brother the 45RFE The 45RFE is a 4 speed version, different prograning same hardware. Models: 2005 - 2006 (DR) Ram Truck 2005 - 2006 (HB) Durango 2005 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty / Cherokee 2005 - 2006 (ND) Dakota 2005 - 2006 (WK / WH) Grand Cherokee 2006 (XK) Commander I got them here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... php?t=8517 Joe Yeah, I know a 6 speed manual would be best. I'm just trying to think outside the (gear) box.

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Ahhh, thanks. I found all the answers here... http://hotrodlane.cc/New%20HEMI%20Tech/2004%2057%20hemi%20trans.pdf

Author:	AZScout [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Does anyone know where to get the wiring schematics for the TCM?

Author:	danoid [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:
There's a few problems with aftermarket reprograming this trans. 1. It's a diesel. OK you all knew that, but the problem stems from the fact it's NOT a Chrysler gas engine. On those (all of the other applications using this transmission) the engine and transmission are controlled by a single (dual processor) box - NGC (stands for Next Generation Controller - cute huh?) The KJ CRD uses a Bosch engine controller and a Chrysler standalone transmission controller. In other words, an aftermarket solution for a hemi pickup truck won't work for us unless it COMPLETELY replaces all functions of the stock controller. There's a little more to each shift than flicking a switch. Clucth application is closed loop controlled, pulse width modulated. Redevelopment of that for an aftermarket controller would probably take several man-years, just like it did for Chrysler. 2. That Chrysler standalone transmission controller is not the 'latest' generation NGC. It's the previous generation (ETAX - Electronic Transmission Automatic don't know what the X is for). This controller does (did) exist in other applications so some comparative software might be available - but those other applications were all 45RFE (not 545RFE) so if you tried using that software you'd end up with a 4 speed instead. 3. The usual problem - there aren't enough of them out there to make a financially attractive market for a transmission hacker.

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Author:	chrispitude [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Hmm. So maybe our only recourse is to write letters to Jeep asking them for a silent "customer satisfaction" campaign to reprogram the TCM in cases where the customer has upgraded the torque converter to a heavier duty unit? - Chris

Author:	Bill.Barg [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:26 am ]
Post subject:	Ask the defeated enemy to capitulate.
Chris has a good point. Is the dealer really that much of an enemy after the warrantee is out? Has anyone tried asking for a flash of the old code? Can we at least find out which flash is the one wanted? Maybe MrMopar64 has an idea? I will ask the local service department on my next visit. Cant hurt to ask!

Author:	Pablo [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ask the defeated enemy to capitulate.
Bill.Barg wrote: Chris has a good point. Is the dealer really that much of an enemy after the warrantee is out? Has anyone tried asking for a flash of the old code? Can we at least find out which flash is the one wanted? Maybe MrMopar64 has an idea? I will ask the local service department on my next visit. Cant hurt to ask! It has to come from corporate, and considering the change at the top-- i.e. no more MB, they may give it to us. I was hoping the new JK would have the upgraded 545RFE and then we would be able to get the TCM flashed from that, as well as get newer internals from that beefed up tranny. It does not look like that is the case as the new CRD JK has the MB tranny in it. I don't know about the KK. The dealer is kinda powerless. In order for the dealer to flash, they have to connect directly via "the internets" to the mothership (actually the STARSCAN network-- or whatever). If they lose the connection during the install, they get to start over again. So they only get what Chrysler/DC gives them at the time of the flash and DC's software will not let them store copies of flashes to keep laying around. Plus, it sounds like each download has its own DRM encryption code and unique registration number that gets assigned to your VIN. This is what InMotion can't crack (at least not easily). This way if someone does copy and hack a flash-- hooking it up to STAR could rat them out.

Author:	flash7210 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:27 am ]
Post subject:
What about companies that rebuild ECU's and TCU's? How do they program those? http://www.transmissioncontrolunits.com/finditfast/

Author:	MrMopar64 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ask the defeated enemy to capitulate.
Pablo wrote: I was hoping the new JK would have the upgraded 545RFE and then we would be able to get the TCM flashed from that, as well as get newer internals from that beefed up tranny. It does not look like that is the case as the new CRD JK has the MB tranny in it. I don't know about the KK. The dealer is kinda powerless. In order for the dealer to flash, they have to connect directly via "the internets" to the mothership (actually the STARSCAN network-- or whatever). If they lose the connection during the install, they get to start over again. So they only get what Chrysler/DC gives them at the time of the flash and DC's software will not let them store copies of flashes to keep laying around. Plus, it sounds like each download has its own DRM encryption code and unique registration number that gets assigned to your VIN. This is what InMotion can't crack (at least not easily). This way if someone does copy and hack a flash-- hooking it up to STAR could rat them out. The '07 CRD JK has the same 545RFE from the KJ with minor changes for reliability. 360 N-m limit for the trans. 2008 CRD JK has an improved 545RFE for a torque rating increase to 460 N-m -- new converter, etc. That converter will install into a KJ trans if you can find one... In terms of encryption, the ECU calibration is "locked" by Bosch which means that any subsequent calibrations flashed into the controller must contain the same security code algorithm. It also applies to any communication method with the controller (CAN, ISO-9141 K-Line, J1850) so without having a locked calibration from Bosch you can't reprogram through communication. Additionally, new calibrations are set up for supercedence so that you can only flash forwards, not backwards. The only way to combat either of these "features" is to get a custom calibration made - but for Bosch to lock a new cal then you're talking about 5 figures of money. For the TCM, those are all done internally by Chrysler so I'm not sure if there is a security protocol for the trans cal. I know the supercedence issue will come into play again so that's one avenue to overcome. I'm not 100% on this, but I seem to believe that the KJ uses the EATX module for the transmission vs. the newer NGC4 trans controller for new applications which might be part of the problem as well.