Burned CRD :(

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:26 pm

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:34 pm

Fuel filter is MIA, isn't it? The mental image of my burned fuel heater guts scares the hell out of me when combined with these pictures.

The fire dept. sawed their way into that one. Notch missing out of the hood, sawcuts in the upper radiator support.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:47 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

Fuel filter is MIA, isn't it? The mental image of my burned fuel heater guts scares the hell out of me when combined with these pictures.

Yup it looks pretty much gone, also the worse burn marks on the window are right about above it.

You can also tell the fire started on the drivers side of the engine, the pass side isn't nearly as burnt up.

Even without knowing the specifics since we have the vin it might be worthwhile to pass along to the NHTSA, maybe one of the guys who had been in email contact with them could forward those pictures along. If they have the vin they might be able to follow up more than we could. All I know is the vehicle is in houston now and is coming up for sale soon.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:52 am

This just plain gets me angry. This could have happened to my wife and son. My burned out fuel heater plug was a bomb in the making. When I filed my NHTSA report, a few pics like this could have gone a long way to back up my argument that this arangement is UNSAFE, and that the design is DANGEROUS and FLAWED.

Again, I suggest that everyone unplug their fuel heater element until this is recalled and fixed.

nix · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:27 am

I don't know if it helps but.. that jeep is registered in Texas. Those are Texas registration and inspection stickers on the windshield. They are even the new version of those stickers.. so this incident happened very recently.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:32 am

I would guess that the filter head being missing means that it is in NHTSA's hands. Another nail in the Bosch filter head coffin.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:40 pm

I'm not sure Bosch is to blame for the filter head. The heater (mine anyway) was made by these folks and has the Elth name on it. Drill down into car products, heaters, diesel fuel heaters and you'll find this picture. The one in the lower left corner looks familiar.

http://cebi.kicms.de/cebi-internet/frameset/fr_index

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:24 pm

nix wrote:

I don't know if it helps but.. that jeep is registered in Texas. Those are Texas registration and inspection stickers on the windshield. They are even the new version of those stickers.. so this incident happened very recently.

The auction site is out of houston.

I seriously think someone who has been in contact with the nhtsa should send these pictures and vin number along to them as evidence of a failure.

though we cant be certain about the specifics of course.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:47 am

I checked the VIN on the Jeep website 1J4GL4854 5W655869 Vehicle Description:
JEEP LIBERTY SPORT 4X4 SPORT UTILITY 4-DR Model Year:2005

No Incomplete Recalls or Customer Satisfaction Notifications Exist

At least we know it wasn't for the blower motor recall.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:25 am

Neither Bosch or the heater manufacturer are to blame. The blame rests squarely with Chrysler for designing this part into a system that doen't provide an adequate mechanism to deliver fuel to the heater and that doesn't have safeguards in place to shut the heater down if air enters the system and it runs dry.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:10 am

dirtmover wrote:

Neither Bosch or the heater manufacturer are to blame. The blame rests squarely with Chrysler for designing this part into a system that doen't provide an adequate mechanism to deliver fuel to the heater and that doesn't have safeguards in place to shut the heater down if air enters the system and it runs dry.

I am not sure about placing all the blame on Chrysler. I believe the 2.5 CRD had a different Bosch fuel pump, a lift pump and a Racor filter. With the new Bosch pump I think Bosch was calling the shots and told Chrysler they didn't need a lift pump anymore and they could use their "better" filter rather than Racor's. While Bosch may not make the heater the heater was specifically designed for Bosch and their filter head thus was designed to their standard. Personally I think Bosch is in this deal up to their neck.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:31 am

I wouldn't pin the blame on Bosch so quickly either. I haven't seen anything on that fuel filter head specifically labeled as being made by Bosch.

From talking with several diesel mechanics over the past few months, the basic story is that Bosch tells the OEM's they need X micron filter to protect their fuel injection system, but the OEM's want to drop down to Y micron filter so it doesn't have to be changed out as often, save money on the cost of the filter, and (in their mind) avoid PO'ing their customers by not having to change out the filter as often.

One mechanic told me that GM and Bosch had this very argument concerning the Duramax. Bosch insisted on X micron, GM wanted to use Y micron, and as a compromise they went with Z micron, a value in between.

In the end, Bosch didn't decide what equipment to install on these vehicles, DC made that call. Bosch simply told them the specs they had to meet to use their injection system, it was up to DC to make the call as to what equipment they used to supposedly meet those specs.

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:36 am

Cowcatcher wrote:

dirtmover wrote:

Neither Bosch or the heater manufacturer are to blame. The blame rests squarely with Chrysler for designing this part into a system that doen't provide an adequate mechanism to deliver fuel to the heater and that doesn't have safeguards in place to shut the heater down if air enters the system and it runs dry.

I am not sure about placing all the blame on Chrysler. I believe the 2.5 CRD had a different Bosch fuel pump, a lift pump and a Racor filter. With the new Bosch pump I think Bosch was calling the shots and told Chrysler they didn't need a lift pump anymore and they could use their "better" filter rather than Racor's. While Bosch may not make the heater the heater was specifically designed for Bosch and their filter head thus was designed to their standard. Personally I think Bosch is in this deal up to their neck.

If Chryslyer followed Bosch's recommedations on the application of this filter then I agree...They are in up to their neck. But I wouldnt be suprised at all to find out that Chrysler decided for themselves that it didnt need a lift pump or a orificed return line.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 pm

retmil46 wrote:

I wouldn't pin the blame on Bosch so quickly either. I haven't seen anything on that fuel filter head specifically labeled as being made by Bosch.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say earlier.

palla · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:50 am

Is this fuel heater in the export models? Im not sure if I have one on mine. I will need to have a look next time im under the hood.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:38 am

The new head came in 2004 or 2005 in all models.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:32 pm

This is from my :*PIC* engine bay/fuel filter on 2002 Russian CRD post:

Here is my idea, if the fuel heater element "puck" isn't necessary, it seems to be defective anyways (cracks, air leaks, burned sockets, fuel leaks). Couldn't we just remove it :?:

When you remove/replace the fuel filter you can remove the puck by unscrewing the threaded nipple with a 3/8 allen wrench. This is done for the CAT fuel filter conversion.
Could we make a "dummy puck" from billet steel or aluminum with the 2 holes matching the puck to take it's place and replace the seal with a thicker viton O-ring :?:

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:38 pm

Jeger wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

dirtmover wrote:

Neither Bosch or the heater manufacturer are to blame. The blame rests squarely with Chrysler for designing this part into a system that doen't provide an adequate mechanism to deliver fuel to the heater and that doesn't have safeguards in place to shut the heater down if air enters the system and it runs dry.

I am not sure about placing all the blame on Chrysler. I believe the 2.5 CRD had a different Bosch fuel pump, a lift pump and a Racor filter. With the new Bosch pump I think Bosch was calling the shots and told Chrysler they didn't need a lift pump anymore and they could use their "better" filter rather than Racor's. While Bosch may not make the heater the heater was specifically designed for Bosch and their filter head thus was designed to their standard. Personally I think Bosch is in this deal up to their neck.

If Chryslyer followed Bosch's recommedations on the application of this filter then I agree...They are in up to their neck. But I wouldnt be suprised at all to find out that Chrysler decided for themselves that it didnt need a lift pump or a orificed return line.

The fuel filter assy. is made by Ufi Filters (www.ufi.it). Not sure specifically about the heater/fuel temp part of it, but the entire assy. comes from Ufi.

The 2.5L engine had a different CP3 entirely. Without the liftpump, it won't run at all. For the different applications, Bosch releases a document that states the equipment necessary to fulfill the requirements for the fuel system. They say to not use a lift pump, a lift pump isn't used. Also, Ufi vs. Racor comes down to $$$$ of course. I use the same filter head as the KJ with the same CP3 pump on the dyno setups here at school but without the heater plugged in and there aren't any issue with air here. I should try a CP3 from one of the older 2.5L engines and see if it runs differently.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:11 pm

Thanks for this Mr.Mopar.

I know you have spoken a little negatively about the value of lift pumps in the past but I experienced the fuel starvation issue once in traffic and it is no fun. If the lift pump solves that issue and we can resolve the problem of the bad fuel filter most of the issues with this great truck are gone.

Your comments have been extremely valuable to those of us here.

fatweasel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:03 pm

The battery looks to be in the area where of the fire, don't be so quick to rule that out. A much more common source of auto fires than furl heaters.

Might want to remove your battery cables also.

Burned CRD :(

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