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*PIC* engine bay/fuel filter on 2002 Russian CRD
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24780		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  blake1827 [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  *PIC* engine bay/fuel filter on 2002 Russian CRD
Image

This is the same fuel filter head we saw from one of our Aussie members but this clearly shows a Mopar filter, not a Racor. The white knob on top is the primer pump, but no heater element obviously. How hard do you think it could be to get your hands on that specific part? I dunno if we're ever going to get a recall :cry: :evil: I know this is the 2.5L everything else is familiar except I don't recognize the black module :?: sticking out between the fuel filter and brake fluid reservoir.
http://www.a-r.ru/new_site/year2002/n20/jeep/1.htm no, I don't read Russian
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Go to Purolator or Wix or Fram, look up yer filter number cross-reference - Chrysler isn't into making all their own stuff, anymore - that MOPAR filter has a Wix or Purolator or Fram p\n printed in ink on the cartridge, along with the datecode - I 'spect the filter head is a Racor-design, also, to DCX spec

MOPAR 52129238AA
Author:  UFO [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I notice the airbox is more similar to the 3.7L box as well...
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wonder what model that is - has mechanical cruise control
Author:  blake1827 [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Eliminate the puck
Here is my idea, if the fuel heater element "puck" isn't necessary, it seems to be defective anyways (cracks, air leaks, burned sockets, fuel leaks). Couldn't we just remove it :?:

When you remove/replace the fuel filter you can remove the puck by unscrewing the threaded nipple with a 3/8 allen wrench. This is done for the CAT fuel filter conversion.
Could we make a "dummy puck" from billet steel or aluminum with the 2 holes matching the puck to take it's place and replace the seal with a thicker viton O-ring :?:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=24599
Yes, the airbox is identical to the '02 replacement box I purchased for the airbox mod.
Author:  retmil46 [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Problem is, you need the fuel temp sensor that's also in the puck. Throws a code if you disconnect it, undoubtedly affects timing and fueling if it's unplugged, and is also (per Mopar64) a temperature safeguard to reduce power and fueling to protect the CP3 injection pump if incoming fuel temp gets too high (approx 80 C/185 F).
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Like to get some quality hands-on time with a couple of those 'pucks' - we'd soon have reliable resolution, and I wouldn't be just puckin' around, either...............
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
That is a Racor 230 filter assembly (same assembly someone recommended here the other day for replacing the faulty plastic crap that comes stock).

Here's an image of one:

Image

Note the same priming pump in the center, same bronze-colored bolt on the right side. The reason you don't see a heater element is because it plugs into the bottom of the filter, rather than into a plastic puck mounted in the filter assembly.

The filter itself says Mopar, but bear in mind that Wix, Fram, etc... all make filters for Racor assemblies. Most likely Chrysler just buys from one of those suppliers and pays to have the Mopar name and logo on it (much like they do with the filters for the stock assembly.)

The total cost for a Racor package to replace ours is about $125 bucks, with air-tight priming system, bowl that lets you check for water in fuel, and heater element. 2 micron filters are available for it (better than the Cat filters). Makes a lot more sense to go that route (assuming you are out of warranty) than screwing around trying to fix the stock assembly.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
If I am not mistaken the threaded piece fits the head not the puck so if you could just remove the puck I think you would not be able to screw the filter home to the head because of the added length. Also, someone here early in the CAT filter process noted that the quality of milling on the head was also suspect with repect to how smooth it was at the second "0" ring and that the poor milling might also have been contributing to the leakage at the puck.

The picture is from the 2.5 CRD. You will note the location of the dip stick through the engine cover. And yes, the air box was the same as the gasser. So much for progress.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Far be it from me to be picky, but wouldn't that also be sorta scary - having the 200w heater hidden outta sight down under the filter element, in another plastic component?

How'bout a poll - see how many northern CRD's have the damaged heater puck vs those below the Mason-Dixon line, where it don't snow much, most places - would need to state your state and mileage.......................
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another view of the bottom of filter in the Racor unit Jeep originally used in the European/Aussie CRDs:

Image

On the danger of the Racor design... I wouldn't worry too much. From the reading I have done, and talking to two local diesel mechanics about our Jeep's problem, Racor is the leading manufacturer of diesel fuel filtering systems in the world. Everything from tractors to big rigs to boats to cars. They probably know what they are doing (at least more so than the drunken monkey who designed the plastic puck on our filters).

And remember, the heater element in our filters is also submerged in diesel fuel. Makes no difference whether the element is in the top or the bottom, the heater has to be in contact with the fuel to do its job.

Also consider that you can run the Racor filter without the heating element if you so choose.
Author:  MrWinkey [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
The question is does the Racor filter head and heater have it's own T-stat so it can turn on and off and only needs the 12v?

Just curious.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: *PIC* engine bay/fuel filter on 2002 Russian CRD
blake1827 wrote:
Image

This is the same fuel filter head we saw from one of our Aussie members but this clearly shows a Mopar filter, not a Racor. The white knob on top is the primer pump, but no heater element obviously. How hard do you think it could be to get your hands on that specific part? I dunno if we're ever going to get a recall :cry: :evil: I know this is the 2.5L everything else is familiar except I don't recognize the black module :?: sticking out between the fuel filter and brake fluid reservoir.
http://www.a-r.ru/new_site/year2002/n20/jeep/1.htm no, I don't read Russian


The black thing next to the fuel filter is the accel pedal module. Instead of the potentiometers being built into the pedal like on current vehicles, pre-2005 had this setup where the pedal pulled a cable which then actuated the pot located under the hood.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good pic - Racor has been supplying those for years, and I've never heard of any problems, except neglect - that heater is t-stat controlled - got the R445 series on my GMC, 'nuther one waiting for the Dodge, so no stranger to Racor - but it's back under the bed, not on the firewall next to the engine - the sight-bowl is the inlet side, direct from the supply, where the water and heavier elements can precipitate out and be seen - I had in mind a 200w pencil-type heater, plumbed in thru the auxilliary port, hanging down thru the screw-on nipple, in the filter cannister, itself, surrounded by metal - wiring would come out the metal pipe-plug thru a liqui-tite seal.

Always thinkin'...........................
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Found this in a sales pitch for the Racor 230R filter:


Fuel Heater. The 215R, 230R, and 245R units may be ordered with an in-bowl 200 watt, thermostatically controlled resistance heater. This design places the heat source directly below the element to maximize heat transfer.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The heater and temperature sensor wires and connectors as far as I can tell look just like what we have :lol: Since the feds are investigating our fuel heater and there is a slight possibility of yet another recall :roll: MAYBE they'll take the easy way out and use these :shock: :D :) With the CRD that burned up down in Texas they will most likely be forced to do something :oops:
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joe Romas wrote:
The heater and temperature sensor wires and connectors as far as I can tell look just like what we have :lol: Since the feds are investigating our fuel heater and there is a slight possibility of yet another recall :roll: MAYBE they'll take the easy way out and use these :shock: :D :) With the CRD that burned up down in Texas they will most likely be forced to do something :oops:


We have no way of knowing the circumstances of that burned CRD and if it was even reported to the NHTSA, as is the low resolution pictures we have are only circumstantial evidence to support a faulty filter head.
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
looks like I'm wrong on the total cost of a Racor set up... 125 bucks is for the filter assembly... heater element and bowl for water detection are extra (which may be why the Chrysler bean counters dropped them in favor of what we have.)
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sir Sam wrote:
Joe Romas wrote:
The heater and temperature sensor wires and connectors as far as I can tell look just like what we have :lol: Since the feds are investigating our fuel heater and there is a slight possibility of yet another recall :roll: MAYBE they'll take the easy way out and use these :shock: :D :) With the CRD that burned up down in Texas they will most likely be forced to do something :oops:


We have no way of knowing the circumstances of that burned CRD and if it was even reported to the NHTSA, as is the low resolution pictures we have are only circumstantial evidence to support a faulty filter head.


There has been a investigation opened on the filter head and it lists one fire. Have you seen these?

http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/a ... -26271.pdf
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/a ... -26128.pdf

Joe
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joe Romas wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
Joe Romas wrote:
The heater and temperature sensor wires and connectors as far as I can tell look just like what we have :lol: Since the feds are investigating our fuel heater and there is a slight possibility of yet another recall :roll: MAYBE they'll take the easy way out and use these :shock: :D :) With the CRD that burned up down in Texas they will most likely be forced to do something :oops:


We have no way of knowing the circumstances of that burned CRD and if it was even reported to the NHTSA, as is the low resolution pictures we have are only circumstantial evidence to support a faulty filter head.


There has been a investigation opened on the filter head and it lists one fire. Have you seen these?

http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/a ... -26271.pdf
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/a ... -26128.pdf

Joe


Lists one fire, but we have no way of knowing if this vehicle was the one listed or if it was another one listed, this actually isnt the first burned CRD I have seen.


I am leery to submit the vin and photos of the burned jeep I posted because I have had no prior contact or communication with anyone at the NHTSA and I dont feel that photos alone are enough to support that it was the cause of that fire.

That document is dated from about a month ago, which means if anyone brought to the attention the burned CRD i posted it was well before I found it.
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