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Recalls, TSB's and the F37
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24896		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Recalls, TSB's and the F37
T^2's experience with the dealer suggesting his failure to F37 to be a contibuting factor in his EGR failure got me to digging through my CRD stuff for the F37 notice. The reason was that while many have described it as a "RECALL" I remembered it as a "TSB" or at least a "Customer Satisfaction Notification" as opposed to a "RECALL". It would be interesting to understand the difference between all these designations as well as the difference between the numbering on the various notifications.

It seems to me that most of the true "RECALLS" were forced on Chrysler by the feds and were generally Liberty common. There have only been three to my count. 1)BMC reprogram, 2)Ball joints, 3)Blower Motor. These "RECALLS" also generally come with a lifetime warranty.

I wasn't proactive on the pre F31 TSB's regarding filters as I wasn't having issues but I wanted the F31 with both filters changed and to fix an earlier re-program that fouled up the OBDII but I had to conjur up some symptoms to get it. The F31 was a TSB and a "Customer Satisfaction Notification" but you only got it if you begged or had a failure as were it's half hearted predecessors. Then came the F37 because some people weren't given the ealier updates but now, all of a sudden the F37 TSB/Customer Satisfaction Notification comes through from "Recall Administration" and they send out periodic notices. The notices don't say you "must" have it but "we are recommending". Still, when I went in for other service and told them that I didn't want it right now the service writer indicated on the records that I had "REFUSED" it. When I went back in to pick it up my regular service writer asked me if I had refused it indicating that if I refused and it failed I might be on my own dime with D/C. I asked him if the F37 came with a new pump and he told me that it only did if it needed it so told him that I hadn't refused but that I didn't have time to give up the vehicle just then, and he changed the records to indicate that.

So, what is the difference between a TSB/Customer Satisfaction Notification and a real "RECALL"? What does one TSB generate no notification and you only get it if you beg while other TSB's get so much visability and where do we stand with Chrysler legally if the TC fails under warranty and we haven't had the F37 done by our own choice?
Author:  T^2 [ Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
First, I'm not a lawyer.

Second, I've called DCX customer support and they've told me that the warranty remains intact if you don't have the F37 CSN done. Of course, you may call and talk to a different customer support rep and get a different answer.

If you've accepted the F37 CSN, you've also implicitly accepted the reduction in torque that goes with it. Once done, I suspect you have no further recourse.

Accepting the reduction in torque means accepting something that's less than what was advertised and sold to you. I suspect that DCX can't force you to do so, even via threats to the state of your warranty.

However, DCX has cleverly shielded themselves against lawsuits about false advertising etc. After all the reduction in torque was voluntary on your part. You didn't have to have the F37 CSN done. It was only "recommended", remember...
Author:  Joe Romas [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
T^2 wrote:
First, I'm not a lawyer.

Second, I've called DCX customer support and they've told me that the warranty remains intact if you don't have the F37 CSN done. Of course, you may call and talk to a different customer support rep and get a different answer.

If you've accepted the F37 CSN, you've also implicitly accepted the reduction in torque that goes with it. Once done, I suspect you have no further recourse.

Accepting the reduction in torque means accepting something that's less than what was advertised and sold to you. I suspect that DCX can't force you to do so, even via threats to the state of your warranty.

However, DCX has cleverly shielded themselves against lawsuits about false advertising etc. After all the reduction in torque was voluntary on your part. You didn't have to have the F37 CSN done. It was only "recommended", remember...


First your given NO choice :roll: I went in for F-31 that was a RECALL. Anytime your CRD is connected to the mothership you get all the latest and greatest firmware period :shock: F37 was a tsb for "customer satisfaction". Per the tech I got F37 that mine didn't qualify for, F21 that I already had in addition to F31. If you or anybody (emmission testing maybe) are going to hook a third party scanner to it and yours needs F31 it's a catch 22. So there's nothing "voluntary" about it :twisted:
Author:  T^2 [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Joe Romas wrote:
T^2 wrote:
First, I'm not a lawyer.

Second, I've called DCX customer support and they've told me that the warranty remains intact if you don't have the F37 CSN done. Of course, you may call and talk to a different customer support rep and get a different answer.

If you've accepted the F37 CSN, you've also implicitly accepted the reduction in torque that goes with it. Once done, I suspect you have no further recourse.

Accepting the reduction in torque means accepting something that's less than what was advertised and sold to you. I suspect that DCX can't force you to do so, even via threats to the state of your warranty.

However, DCX has cleverly shielded themselves against lawsuits about false advertising etc. After all the reduction in torque was voluntary on your part. You didn't have to have the F37 CSN done. It was only "recommended", remember...


First your given NO choice :roll: I went in for F-31 that was a RECALL. Anytime your CRD is connected to the mothership you get all the latest and greatest firmware period :shock: F37 was a tsb for "customer satisfaction". Per the tech I got F37 that mine didn't qualify for, F21 that I already had in addition to F31. If you or anybody (emmission testing maybe) are going to hook a third party scanner to it and yours needs F31 it's a catch 22. So there's nothing "voluntary" about it :twisted:


I've never had occasion to hook up a third party scanner.

As far as having a choice. I had one. I simply made it clear to my dealer that I would not authorize them to do any further flashes to my vehicle. Hence, my software is pre F37.
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