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The only way to know for sure is to ask the technician to plug in the DRB and read the software version of the ECM and the TCM. If the ECM ends in 'CF' and the TCM ends in 'AI' then your vehicle has had the F37 performed.
I would stand next to the technician and have him show you the display of the DRB.

A very interesting side note. My 05 CRD came OEM with ECM series code 'CB', I only had one software reflash back in 2005 to version 'CC'. 'CC' was the sticker placed on my ECM.

There were many subsequent ECM updates released by DCX namely 'CD', 'CE', 'CF'(F37) of which I did not have done. I know that for a fact as my dealership allows my in the service bay and under the vehicle.

I thought I was F37 free. However, as early as software 'CC' the F37 was secretly packaged in those software updates for the ECM and not advertised to the public. It was a silent update. I found this out this week as I asked my tech to ride with me to monitor my trans line pressure with the transgo shift and resistor.
I asked him for just kicks, what the software release was on the ECM and it read 'CF' and the TCM read 'AF'

When the real F37 was made public, it updated the ECM to 'CF' and the TCM to 'AI'
Luckily my TCM is still at 'AF'

According to the CSN for the F37, it will take the dealer approx 5.5 hours to complete the repairs.
My vehicle was at the dealer for less than 4 hours, during which they were replacing the fuel fillter head and the pre-heater connector.

So, the way I see it either the stealer didnt do any F37 work, but reported it to DCx just to get paid for it, or they flashed the ECM/TCM but didn't actually replace the TC as is required by the CSN just to get paid for it. Plus what were the chances that they had a replacement TC laying around for this vehicle since I didnt have them order one in just for me?

The first way may be good for me as any future work would show that the upgrade was already done and they wont try it in the future.
The second way really helps out my case if I need to get tough with these guys about fixing he whole mess.

I have to say, I have not been able to figure out what all the weeping and moaning regarding the F-37 is about. It was done to mine quite some time ago and I have never noticied a difference in torque, acceleration, or fuel mileage. I can still smoke the rear tires if I want and there is plenty of power for off road.

If there really was a 5% reduction in torque I never noticed.

I hate to say it, but I think this is another case of the knuckle dragging gear heads getting wild over nothing.

Well I talked to the same service writer this AM as when I brought the vehicle in on Thursday.

I recorded our conversation on my PocketPC, and he basically told me everything I wanted to hear
(They knew not to flash it, they made a note not to flash it, etc...)

I am going to take it in on Monday to verify the software versions.
I have some calls in to DC also to see if the dealer reported warranty work that they didnt actually perform.

I hate to say it, but I think this is another case of the knuckle dragging gear heads getting wild over nothing.

Author:	longview [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:	GRRR! F37'd
A little back ground: I just bought this CRD about 3 weeks ago after specifically seeking out a non-F37 version. I had to drive 300 miles to pick it up in another state. I took my vehicle to the stealer on Thursday to have them replace the fuel filter housing and wiring connector as noted in another thread. When I dropped the vehicle off I explained to the service manager that under no uncertian circumstances did I want the udpate - just replace the filter head. Tonight (Friday) for S's and G's, I plugged my VIN# into the Jeep webiste - previously it showed that my Jeep qualified for the TCM/TC update. Now it show that I dont have any outstanding recalls or CSNs. Either something is different with the website, or the stealer ignored my explicit instructions not to give me the update. I am going to get ahold of them tomorrow first thing. If they did update me, I will be suing the dealer and possibly DC to recover damages.

Author:	Saber [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:
pop your hood there will be sticker of the update if it was done.

Author:	longview [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Wife took it out town for the weekend. I will see if I can get her to check it out.

Author:	Johnboy [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:
I do not think the sticker means much. I do have the F37, no sticker. My brothers got nuetered this month, no sticker??

Author:	DZL_LOU [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:
The only way to know for sure is to ask the technician to plug in the DRB and read the software version of the ECM and the TCM. If the ECM ends in 'CF' and the TCM ends in 'AI' then your vehicle has had the F37 performed. I would stand next to the technician and have him show you the display of the DRB. A very interesting side note. My 05 CRD came OEM with ECM series code 'CB', I only had one software reflash back in 2005 to version 'CC'. 'CC' was the sticker placed on my ECM. There were many subsequent ECM updates released by DCX namely 'CD', 'CE', 'CF'(F37) of which I did not have done. I know that for a fact as my dealership allows my in the service bay and under the vehicle. I thought I was F37 free. However, as early as software 'CC' the F37 was secretly packaged in those software updates for the ECM and not advertised to the public. It was a silent update. I found this out this week as I asked my tech to ride with me to monitor my trans line pressure with the transgo shift and resistor. I asked him for just kicks, what the software release was on the ECM and it read 'CF' and the TCM read 'AF' When the real F37 was made public, it updated the ECM to 'CF' and the TCM to 'AI' Luckily my TCM is still at 'AF'

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GRRR! F37'd http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25360	Page 1 of 2

Author:	gmctd [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Interesting stuff - sneaky, but interesting. I'll see if I can read that with the pc. So, how did the pressures compare, B4 and after? Did the TCM indicate any upset?

Author:	longview [ Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:
According to the CSN for the F37, it will take the dealer approx 5.5 hours to complete the repairs. My vehicle was at the dealer for less than 4 hours, during which they were replacing the fuel fillter head and the pre-heater connector. So, the way I see it either the stealer didnt do any F37 work, but reported it to DCx just to get paid for it, or they flashed the ECM/TCM but didn't actually replace the TC as is required by the CSN just to get paid for it. Plus what were the chances that they had a replacement TC laying around for this vehicle since I didnt have them order one in just for me? The first way may be good for me as any future work would show that the upgrade was already done and they wont try it in the future. The second way really helps out my case if I need to get tough with these guys about fixing he whole mess.

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:26 am ]
Post subject:
DZL_LOU wrote: The only way to know for sure is to ask the technician to plug in the DRB and read the software version of the ECM and the TCM. If the ECM ends in 'CF' and the TCM ends in 'AI' then your vehicle has had the F37 performed. I would stand next to the technician and have him show you the display of the DRB. A very interesting side note. My 05 CRD came OEM with ECM series code 'CB', I only had one software reflash back in 2005 to version 'CC'. 'CC' was the sticker placed on my ECM. There were many subsequent ECM updates released by DCX namely 'CD', 'CE', 'CF'(F37) of which I did not have done. I know that for a fact as my dealership allows my in the service bay and under the vehicle. I thought I was F37 free. However, as early as software 'CC' the F37 was secretly packaged in those software updates for the ECM and not advertised to the public. It was a silent update. I found this out this week as I asked my tech to ride with me to monitor my trans line pressure with the transgo shift and resistor. I asked him for just kicks, what the software release was on the ECM and it read 'CF' and the TCM read 'AF' When the real F37 was made public, it updated the ECM to 'CF' and the TCM to 'AI' Luckily my TCM is still at 'AF' Same here, May '05 build, came with a "CC" sticker placed over the original. When Ranger1 checked mine with an Eqqus scantool a few months back, it had been reflashed to "CE" when the EGR was replaced. Even when I first got it, it never seemed to have the same oomph as my friend's down in TX which was a Feb '05 build and purchased in March '05 - probably "CA" or "CB". "CE" changed it to where it had to rev well over 2 grand to have any real power and takeoff, as the recent dyno confirmed. Comparing mine with Ranger1's, an easy way to tell whether or not your TCM has the F37 disease - if your final shift point is at 62 mph, you have F37 or a version thereof. If your final shift point is at 58 mph, you have the pre-F37 software. But as of today, "CE" is only a bad memory for me. Got my ECM back from Inmotion yesterday with the Stage II installed, put it in today and went for a test drive. Reconnected the MAF sensor before reconnecting the battery, and left it connected for the test drive, just to make sure there weren't any glitches when it first woke up with it's new brain. Results - THIS IS THE DIESEL I FELL IN LOVE WITH TWO YEARS AGO!!!!! The performance is even better than my friend's Feb '05 version on the trip from Wyoming to Texas. There's a new set of black marks on the highway above our house. It will easily squeal the tires from a standing start with anything more than 3/4 throttle - I wasn't even trying to squeal them when I found this out, just trying to get out into heavy traffic. Put the pedal to the floor, the nose comes up, the rear goes down, and you get firmly shoved back into the seat. The lift pump quieted this beast down considerably, this tune quieted it down even further. 45 mph cruise with the windows down, all you can hear is the wind. And this was with the MAF plugged in and the EGR active. Tomorrow I'll unplug it again and see what happens. Thank gawd I never had my TCM F37'd!

Author:	Joe Romas [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:53 am ]
Post subject:
longview wrote: According to the CSN for the F37, it will take the dealer approx 5.5 hours to complete the repairs. My vehicle was at the dealer for less than 4 hours, during which they were replacing the fuel fillter head and the pre-heater connector. So, the way I see it either the stealer didnt do any F37 work, but reported it to DCx just to get paid for it, or they flashed the ECM/TCM but didn't actually replace the TC as is required by the CSN just to get paid for it. Plus what were the chances that they had a replacement TC laying around for this vehicle since I didnt have them order one in just for me? The first way may be good for me as any future work would show that the upgrade was already done and they wont try it in the future. The second way really helps out my case if I need to get tough with these guys about fixing he whole mess. Mine was not elegible for F37 but last trip in for F31 I also got F37 flash but no TC So they are doing the flash without necessarly doing the TC

Author:	RFCRD [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:54 am ]
Post subject:
longview wrote: According to the CSN for the F37, it will take the dealer approx 5.5 hours to complete the repairs. My vehicle was at the dealer for less than 4 hours, during which they were replacing the fuel fillter head and the pre-heater connector. I wouldn't be too confident that your CRD is running on older software versions. The torque reduction logic (was very noticable on mine) was also embedded in earlier re-flashes, possibly as early as TSB 18-023-06 (late July '06). In my case, was a gift of the F-31 recall (Nov. '06). If your CRD had service work performed in the 2nd half of 2006 that required a software download/reflash, chances are the changes are already made regardless of your F-37 status.

Author:	ATXKJ [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:04 am ]
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My understanding is that if they connect to the mainframe they get the latest software downloaded - no control over rev's.

Author:	TDI4BY [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:58 am ]
Post subject:
I just had F-31 done and mine is "AF" now. My wife noticed no difference it how it ran. I doubt I will either. I will report bac though if there is a noticeable difference.

Author:	longview [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Well I talked to the same service writer this AM as when I brought the vehicle in on Thursday. I recorded our conversation on my PocketPC, and he basically told me everything I wanted to hear (They knew not to flash it, they made a note not to flash it, etc...) I am going to take it in on Monday to verify the software versions. I have some calls in to DC also to see if the dealer reported warranty work that they didnt actually perform.

Author:	vtdog [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:35 am ]
Post subject:
I have to say, I have not been able to figure out what all the weeping and moaning regarding the F-37 is about. It was done to mine quite some time ago and I have never noticied a difference in torque, acceleration, or fuel mileage. I can still smoke the rear tires if I want and there is plenty of power for off road. If there really was a 5% reduction in torque I never noticed. I hate to say it, but I think this is another case of the knuckle dragging gear heads getting wild over nothing.

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Author:	Goglio704 [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:
vtdog wrote: I have to say, I have not been able to figure out what all the weeping and moaning regarding the F-37 is about. It was done to mine quite some time ago and I have never noticied a difference in torque, acceleration, or fuel mileage. I can still smoke the rear tires if I want and there is plenty of power for off road. If there really was a 5% reduction in torque I never noticed. I hate to say it, but I think this is another case of the knuckle dragging gear heads getting wild over nothing. Who are you to call anybody names? If there is nothing here of value, stay away. You won't be missed.

Author:	longview [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:
vtdog -- I hear your point - but I wonder if you asked how many people were satisfied with the power and fuel mileage of the CRD after f-37 as compared to before, how many are going to be lined up behind you? For me, at this point it is a matter of principle. If the dealer flashed, my computers I am probalby hosed and just cant do anything about it. But -- I specifically told him not to do something to a vehicle I owned. He admits I told him. If he did it anyway, that is dishonest, and in my opinion illegal. The dealer and DCx do not own my vehicle, nor do they retain any rights to make any changes to it that I do not specifically authorize. If I am losing power, torque, and/or mileage due to their negligence, there should be some accountabilty.

Author:	RFCRD [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:
longview wrote: Well I talked to the same service writer this AM as when I brought the vehicle in on Thursday. I recorded our conversation on my PocketPC, and he basically told me everything I wanted to hear (They knew not to flash it, they made a note not to flash it, etc...) I am going to take it in on Monday to verify the software versions. I have some calls in to DC also to see if the dealer reported warranty work that they didnt actually perform. Can understand your frustration but a more constructive way to get this information might be to ask for a full warranty/TSB history on your vehicle since new. If your CRD was anything like mine, it was a frequent visitor to the service dept. and subject to WAG attempts to make it run. Most repairs that were engine, transmission, or emission related would have required a reflash (no choice), and if done since mid-2006 would have blindly included this software......no different than the weekly Windows Vista update that crashed my laptop this week. Do yourself a big favor, play nice with your service dept. You are essentially married to them through the life of your ownership if they have the even the slightest clue as to how this beast works.

Author:	DZL_LOU [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:
vtdog wrote: I hate to say it, but I think this is another case of the knuckle dragging gear heads getting wild over nothing. vtdog, some things never change. You responded to my very first post about clogged air filters back in March of 2006 with the following response. I quote this as it is your own response. "Seriously, you guys gotta calm down. Every squeek and rattle, or unexpected jolt and many here run screaming into the night like 12 year old girls. Please, get a life. Let's not resort to name calling and be respectful of others posts. If you don't agree with it in a respectful manner then refrain from posting.

Author:	vtdog [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:15 pm ]
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DZL: "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything" Mark Twain

Author:	longview [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks guys. I am playing very nice with them at this point. I just recorded my conversation so I would have something to back up my claims if I need to. I certainly didnt barge in this AM throwing a fit and threatening lawsuits. (sorry for posting that I be suing them earlier - I was just upset at the time) I just asked if they remembered I had asked them not to flash the computers and they said they did remember and claim they didnt do it. I asked about the TC replacement and TCM flashing in the F37 CSN, they said they didn't do either. At this point all I really have is a discrepancy in what the Jeep website showed earlier this week compared to last. I did ask DC for a full service history. I hope to have it Monday.