Racor Fuel Filter Unit

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Serendipity wrote:

Not sure what to make of Mr. Mopar's comments on lift pumps. Somehow, we've went from being told that with a lift pump the engine would be unstable and billow great clouds of smoke to the reference a couple posts up which talks about rail pressure variations that are undetectable by the driver.

To be accurate, what Mr. Mopar actually said was that the overfueling situation in their test engine was the result of a pump being connected to a newer generation of fuel rail that operates at a higher pressure than ours, with more fuel pulses than ours. If you continue reading in the same post, he went on to say the concern he'd have using a lift pump in our CRD's is accelerated wear of the fuel rail, not billowing clouds of black smoke. Given the expense of replacing the fuel rail, and Mr. Mopar being the closest thing we have to a Chrysler engineer posting here, I would not dismiss his concerns out of hand.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I just want the simplest fix for the air in fuel problem if it crops up in my Jeep.

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:31 am

ATXKJ wrote:

With the experience of folks here with lift pumps - I'm fairly confident MrMopar's issue was with the dyno setup.

It was also mentioned that the pump he used may have been a positive displacement type pump. I could see that causing problems.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:53 am

Threeweight wrote:

Serendipity wrote:

Not sure what to make of Mr. Mopar's comments on lift pumps. Somehow, we've went from being told that with a lift pump the engine would be unstable and billow great clouds of smoke to the reference a couple posts up which talks about rail pressure variations that are undetectable by the driver.

To be accurate, what Mr. Mopar actually said was that the overfueling situation in their test engine was the result of a pump being connected to a newer generation of fuel rail that operates at a higher pressure than ours, with more fuel pulses than ours. If you continue reading in the same post, he went on to say the concern he'd have using a lift pump in our CRD's is accelerated wear of the fuel rail, not billowing clouds of black smoke. Given the expense of replacing the fuel rail, and Mr. Mopar being the closest thing we have to a Chrysler engineer posting here, I would not dismiss his concerns out of hand.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I just want the simplest fix for the air in fuel problem if it crops up in my Jeep.

You are referencing a much later statement by Mr. Mopar. The tidbit about the newer system came out much later than the original statement which did mention smoke and other obvious signs of trouble and did not mention the newer system at all. So I think it would be accurate to say that the story has changed some. From Dec 06...

MrMopar64 wrote:

A lift pump is very bad for these engines. It will severly throw off the calibration for the fuel and is not good for the CP3 high pressure pump as it already features a gear-driven low-side suction pump internally. Black smoke, severe misfiring, and horrid fuel use leading to the washing of the cylinder walls and dilution of the oil will result from its use. DO NOT use a lift pump on the VM engine in the KJ CRD. Just a warning as I've been through this trial-and-error before with them.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... ht=#156437

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:08 am

ATXKJ wrote:

have other people installed the lift pump by itself close to the filter head???

I have a lift pump only at my fuel filter head and it has corrected my driveability problems with no apparent down sides including almost totally smoke free :lol:

In your solutions you forgot better fuel :!:

In Europe there's a standard for foaming (air) in addition to it being 50 Cetane and having less sulpher then the US. Remember our diesel engines were made and designed in/for Europe :wink:

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:07 pm

Joe, which pump did you use?

THx - Mark
==

Joe Romas wrote:

ATXKJ wrote:

have other people installed the lift pump by itself close to the filter head???

I have a lift pump only at my fuel filter head and it has corrected my driveability problems with no apparent down sides including almost totally smoke free :lol:

In your solutions you forgot better fuel :!:

In Europe there's a standard for foaming (air) in addition to it being 50 Cetane and having less sulpher then the US. Remember our diesel engines were made and designed in/for Europe :wink:

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:18 pm

The statement concerning early\late CP3 system types also revealed that the system under lab test is the current system installed on production CRD's, with the ECM-controlled Fuel Pressure Solenoid valve on the fuel rail - the earlier system had a simple over-pressure relief valve, as in the Cummins systems.

Dunno what actually occurred - unless the positive-displacement pump over-loaded the COV, exceeding overflow capacity - anything over ~75psi is vented based on draw-from-tank supply in the 2.8L system - in the larger 5.9L Cummins system with pressurized-from-tank supply, the COV vents at 180psi, set for the larger volume of fuel required by the big 6.

The Cummins CRD requires much more fuel than the Jeep CRD, and the fuel tank is way much farther from the engine, so they required pressurized fuel supply to feed filtered fuel to the CP3 gearotor pump.

The COV over-flow capacity in the smaller system may be the answer.

Simply not enuff info to sway the jury - however, the several types of non-positive-displacement aux lift pump as installed here seem to add no problem, while solving the problem of the high-mounted fuel manager head -

- magnetic-coupled rotary - inherently self-limiting
- Facet pulsed-solenoid - design-limiting
- GM AC Delco pulsed solenoid-shuttle - design-limiting

Jeep\DCX position on the '05-'06 CRD is 'don't', as Bosch specifically states that an auxilliary fuel transfer lift pump is not required in this small system - you won't see any official helpful commentary, but check out the '08 CRD versions for the official position resulted from experience based on empirical data (that's you guys and all the KJ CRD's repeatedly sitting in DCX service bays).

If the '08 CRD's gotta aux electric lift pump, then you need one - as a matter of unofficial official statement.........................

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:37 pm

The Racor bowl heater is 200W. At 12V this translates to about 16A. Can the CRD supply this? I'm wondering if the existing heater circuit is up to the task.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:23 pm

msilbernagel wrote:

Joe, which pump did you use?
THx - Mark

Mark. Sorry but I cleaned off my desk and threw away all the paperwork. But it's one of the Purolator solid state pumps rebranded for NAPA. Like the one that BlackLiberty used. The specs on it are "On at 4 psi and off at 7 psi, flow of 32 gph and a lift of somthing like 24 inches if I remember. It came with a small prefilter and one 3/8" hose barb and with another couple of brass fittigs and a foot of hose and tax it was under $50. I wired it like Blackliberty suggested. Locate the "primer pump" relay in the power distribution box in front of the battery and pull it out. Then stick the + lead of the pump into the slot of the switched relay lead (5 as I recall) and just stick the relay in on top of it. The ground is pibby backed to the battery - post. Original hose going into the filter is now hooked to the small prefilter and there's a elbow and another hose barb with a foot of fule line going into the filter head. Pump is tye wrapped to a large wireing harness in the area. A much different running machine. It's fun to drive like it should be so understandably the fuel mileage has dropped a little :wink:

Joe

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:33 pm

Check the Fuel Heater Fuse rating in the underhood convenience center, UFO - if it's 20-30amps, then the circuit should handle it

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:48 pm

UFO wrote:

The Racor bowl heater is 200W. At 12V this translates to about 16A. Can the CRD supply this? I'm wondering if the existing heater circuit is up to the task.

It's a 20A circuit.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:01 pm

Stan Wright wrote:

UFO wrote:

The Racor bowl heater is 200W. At 12V this translates to about 16A. Can the CRD supply this? I'm wondering if the existing heater circuit is up to the task.

It's a 20A circuit.

Thanks. The wires and contacts to the puck heater in the factory unit are so wimpy I was worried. I am looking to see if my Racor 400 series filter head will fit. I just need a heater element and a 2 micron spin-on for it.

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:04 pm

My Racor is scheduled for delivery Fri., but the Omega Temp Sensor won't ship until the 8th.

Question:

Can I run the Raycor with the heater and not the temp sensor?

If no, then is Power Service(winter) and 2 cycle oil enough to keep the fuel stabalized for zero degrees and higher?

Thanks,
Josh

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:27 pm

BankNote4X4 wrote:

Question:

Can I run the Raycor with the heater and not the temp sensor?

Yes, you can. They're for separate functions. The heater is self-regulating and varies it's current based on a built-in thermostat. The temp sensor is for metering adjustments by the computer and the factory puck can simply be tie-wrapped in place next to the filter head to give a reasonable temp approximation. Stan's page (liberty.eurekaboy.com). Has this exact process documented ( I think he took a little time getting his temp sensor installed as well).

Dan

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:25 am

Thanks Dan

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:38 am

Installed my new Raycor head, heater and filter Sat.
Zip tied the temp sensor puck to the head until the Omega Temp Sensor comes. Wow am I now happy with my VM Motori. No more rough inconsistant engine, pumping air out, spraying diesel all over. I will describe a few of my findings, laugh if you must.

The pump seems alot cheaper. But the rest of the set up is sooooo much better. That stock was so weak.
The input and output lines are reversed- I learned the hard way :oops:

I cut the heater plug wires and hard wired to the Raycor heater plug. Pretty easy set up thanks to those that made instructions and gave tips. Now I just need some better fittings. I had to cobble together some brass pieces to get the right sizes (1/4" NPT/ 3/8" Barb) at the one home improvement store I had time to go to. The problem is that the straight reducer cuts off over half the opening on the 90 degree elbow. So I think I have some fuel flow restriction. Plan to get 1 piece brass fittings(online if I have to.

Thanks again to the guys that pioneered and documented as well as the rest that gave counter points and feedback.

Josh

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:47 am

BankNote4X4 wrote:

I had to cobble together some brass pieces to get the right sizes (1/4" NPT/ 3/8" Barb) at the one home improvement store I had time to go to. The problem is that the straight reducer cuts off over half the opening on the 90 degree elbow. So I think I have some fuel flow restriction. Plan to get 1 piece brass fittings(online if I have to.

Josh, have you thought about banjo fittings like the stock system? That's one part that I think mopar got right. They allow direction and tightness to be controlled separately. I just don't know where to find any with the right internal diameter.

Dan

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:02 pm

Agreed, that would be perfect. I 1st pulled the fittings off the stock hoping the would be the same threads- Nope they're too large. Maybe a straight reducer between the raycor and the banjos from stock, but I'd rather have a 1 piece fitting.

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:43 pm

I can'y seem to find anything like the ones that came stock. But this page below seems to have some that are one piece with a 90 degree angle that look like they have a spinning nut to tighten so that the position of the barb can be kept where you want it.

Any thoughts?

http://www.parker.com/parkersql/default ... pe=2&id=27

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:03 am

That link just opened a generic catalog page for me and not any particular item. The item you described could be a pneumatic swivel fitting. Unlike a banjo fitting, they are meant to swivel even when fully tight. If your filter head came with pipe thread ports, I don't think you'll find banjo fittings to fit directly into the pipe ports. Banjo fittings use a straight bolt thread and seal on the face. Pipe ports are tapered and seal on the threads. I like banjo fittings myself, but I think you may be in for a long, fruitless search for NPT banjo fittings. If you don't want NPT fittings, consider the AN type, or either SAE or JIC hydraulic fittings. FWIW, pipe threads will work and have enough forgiveness to allow angling the fitting the way you want. The trick is keeping thread sealer out of the clean side of the filter, particularly if the fittings are disassembled. These folks have a broad product line. They may have something that strikes your fancy.

http://www.royalbrassandhose.com/

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:46 pm

This is the best I've found so far. Its on JEGS website; its the 1/4" NPT/ 3/8" Barb - 90 degree elbow that fits the Raycor and stock fuel lines. But not too cheap :roll:

$19.99 Ea.

Racor Fuel Filter Unit

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