Started having trouble last week or so, with clouds of black smoke when trying to accelerate from a stop. I grabbed the Scangauge II and tried to see what was happening... the codes included 101, 299, and 401. I reset it and watched to see if they would return... they did, but not all at once. First 401, then a days or so it was 299, and today 101.

Watching input air temp, the problems seem to occur when IAT is pretty high (EGR active) - above 150F and typically in the 160s-170s (179 has been the highest I recall seeing). I'm guessing that the thing is sticking, and that the high IATs mean 'too lean' - i.e. too much recycled air, not enough oxygen, and therefore a rich burn; which would account for the clouds of smoke while trying to get enough RPM to turn the turbo and get things going. Once the RPMs are up it seems to run Ok...

After a while the IAT begins to slowly drop until it seems the ECM just quits trying to use the EGR and temps drop to ambient + heat soak (70s-80s).

Just watching things, normal IAT when running with light loads *seems* to be around 100F+ - lean burning with EGR active. Of course, I don't know for sure as I didn't pay as much attention until it started acting up.

It's in the shop now, so it'll be interesting to hear what they think.

Mark

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

UPDATE: The service manager just called. It is not covered by any warranty - original or extended. Since it's considered emissions controls, they are evidently excluded. They tell me it is both the EGR and 'tuning valve'... I explained to the service rep that it was probably the AFC, and how the two worked together to balance fresh .vs. exhaust airflow into the engine. So, perhaps he's now better educated, and I'm over $1,000 poorer!

Is that the typical treatment you all have come to know and expect?

Mark

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

You could have poked it open then did the ORM and it would have ran fine But you would have a CEL Also the Maxi-Care warranty (top of the line) is the only one that covers just about everything including EGR valves I asked and they had to look it up

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Joe,

When I get a little closer to the end-of-warranty (on the rest of it) - I suspect I'll do just that. Given the trouble that seems to attend the EGR on these little gems, I may get the chance...

Mark
--

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

I thought the CRD came with a mandated 5/100K emissions warranty. I hung up before I got throught to the dept I need to ask to find out yesterday when calling to solve warranty transfer issues...

Another thing...I had an EGR replaced less than 5k ago and this week threw the CEL and EGR codes again. Dealer is going to replace the FCV now, which is logical...but I am assuming there is no FCV sensor or associated codes correct? Just the EGR codes?

I am just trying to get this all sorted out and decide if I HAVE to do the ORM to avoid replacing these friggin things continually... not agaisnt the ORM, just would rather not have to mess with a scanner etc.

_________________
77 CJ5 - sold

05 Lt Kaki CRD sport - OME HD FLII - Als UCAs - 255/70/R16 Grabber AT2
3/4 Mopar skids and hooks - Aux lighting F&R
no muffler - Sirius- Browning buckmark mud flaps
$2.76 walmart compass - and a big Black Lab in the back - sold

80 CJ7 4in springs etc.

06 TJ Unlimited

Might want to concider doing the SEGR mod then.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited
1.5/2.0 Daystar Lift
V6 Airbox
SEGR ala TurboTim
255/70/16 Big O on Rubis minor trimming required
87k+ miles=3 factory TC's, 2 front pumps, 1 turbo, & drivers side wheel bearing/hub
Suncoast TC and Transgo Snake oil-41k
New Front Drive shaft-30K
Stage 2 InMotion Tune-54k, makes me go
B&M Tranny Cooler

Mine's in the shop right now for a CEL. Haven't heard anything yet but if something like this happens to me I'll dump my CRD right after the repairs!

_________________
2006 Liberty Limited CRD Bright Silver Metallic (NOW SOLD)
All Recalls Performed
100k extended warranty
Fumoto Oil Drain Valves (Oil Pan & Transfer Case)
V6 Airbox Mod
New Driveshaft, New EGR
2003 Wrangler Sport 4.0L, Bright Blue
2007 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited 4 Door, Red Rock Crystal Pearl WOW!!!

Check out this link...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=243835&highlight=#243835

In it I wrote an abbreviated version of the warranty letter I recieved from
Chrysler. It briefly mentioned an emissions warranty "as required by law".
Though I still dont know exactly what is meant by that.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

I got the same letter back then too...guess I need to call around.

_________________
77 CJ5 - sold

05 Lt Kaki CRD sport - OME HD FLII - Als UCAs - 255/70/R16 Grabber AT2
3/4 Mopar skids and hooks - Aux lighting F&R
no muffler - Sirius- Browning buckmark mud flaps
$2.76 walmart compass - and a big Black Lab in the back - sold

80 CJ7 4in springs etc.

06 TJ Unlimited

I just recently ot EGR replaced under warranty ... just under 36k ...

That Said .. I have SEGR on order ...

_________________
2005 CRD Limited
added Mopar plates, snow, mud
Detours backbone (w/lp8500)
Skink super sliders

UPDATE: Just got the rig back from the shop. Took two days, and they kept it overnight to the third so they could test drive and make certain all the codes were related to the EGR/FCV and not caused by a separate problem. They picked up two of the three days car rental...

To quote the tech's notes on the service sheet (quote):

Had P0093 fuel system large leak detected.
P0402 excessive EGR flow detected
P2299 brake POS/ACCLEL POS incomplete
P0401 Minimal EGR Flow detected
P0299 Turbo charger underboost
P0101 Mass air sensor check performance

Performed tests found leaking gas cap. Found EGR sticking and tuning valve not operating all the way. Replaced gas cap and EGR valve and turning valve and cleared systems and test drove and recheck systems and all operating properly now."

-- end quote --

$15 - Gas Cap
$202 - EGR
$370 - Tuning valve

$593 - total parts, including gaskets
$404 - total labor

Makes the SEGM/ORM looks better all the time - though the ORM did not fix that 55MPH thing - which is not there now. A few days of driving will confirm that it stays gone and this service exercise was responsible for the change.

Good news is that the hiccup (slight miss) at 55MPH when feathering the throttle (slight downhill) - which has been there since I bought the rig at 29,500 (42k now) is totally gone and it runs smoothly through that whole range. It's never done that.. so I suspect one or more of those two valves has been erratic the whole time. It just got to the point over the past few weeks where it started throwing codes and misbehaving badly.

I don't know what to make of the fuel cap -- I thought the 'large leak' was my inserting a chev 6.5L diesel fuel pump before the fuel filter in an attempt to reduce the system's tendency to capture air at the bleeder. I suspect it is. Still, I wonder if the system is designed to pull/hold a vacuum so much so that the cap could have contributed to the 55MPH thing? I could always pop the cap with 1/2 tank of fuel and take a short trip to confirm!

FYI - the service department also recommended:

Front Brakes - $251
Brake Fluid Flush - $128
Front and rear differential service $280
Transfer case service $89
Transmission flush $205

As for warranty - it's well past the manufacturer's stock warranty (3/36 for the EGR), I'm the second owner and didn't have access to the OEM warranty (Max version only) that might have covered it, and the after market policy we purchased explicitly excludes emissions controls such as EGR. I hear that's the norm... so the combination of poor design/implementation and the evasion of both Dodge and the insurance industry in taking responsibility for it leaves us with this mess to manage ourselves.

Obviously, all of this factors in to a lot of future decisions.

Regards,

Mark

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Of course it is a "FUEL" cap not a gas cap and it is not sealed on the CRD or any diesel as it is an open system so that part is totally bogus which would tend to make one start to question the whole rest of the process if they don't even understand this simple part.

_________________
Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

Ditto. I remember someone else having that code and it turns out to mean something entirely different in the CRD. Fuel pump? I don't remember. And a tuning valve? I would get the part numbers they used.

Also, on gassers the emissions system is required to be warranted by federal law-- it is separate from any other warranty. I believe the period is 60,000 miles or so. This should also apply to the diesel world. This is why Blue-tec diesels are being held up-- the urea injection needs to be added every so often and if that is less than 60,000 mile intervals, it does not meet EPA emissions longevity requirements-- which the EPA forces manufacturers to warranty.

If you are less than 60,000 miles, I would call Chrysler corporate and the EPA, think these folks are taking you for a ride.

The part number for the 'TUNING VALVE' is 5142799-AA, description 'VALVE ELE 14033001', $369.60 Unit price.
The EGR is 5166555-AB, "VALVE EGR 14038024", $201.60 Unit price.

Elsewhere on L.O.S.T. I'd read that the Federal Emissions warranty was only 24k. If you can find documentation for 60, I'd love to get my hands on it!

Regards,

Mark
==

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban