It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:46 pm

I travel a lot for my job and now I am in Summerside, PE Canada for a job and my CRD is in the O'Hare parking lot.
I checked out the Ross-Tech web site and found out I will need to trade up to the USB version or buy a PCMCIA card to use this new Laptop. I think I will go for the Ross-Tech upgrade. Since they are in the Christmas Spirit and I need to get home to get the code of my old adaptor, I will wait until next year before I order.
When I get it together, I will report the findings on how the Ross-Tech Vag-Com works for codes. I hope the adapter will work with software that will talk to the CRD ECM.

I will use the grommet and a wrap of neoprene.

I figured there was another of those darn quick snap connectors on top of the tank. A bubble check will determine if it is a leaker. If it is a leaker I will make a ball check bleeder that goes into the bleeder port and goes into the return line.

Regards,

Steve

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:19 pm

So, back on the subject of the in-tank lift pump, can anyone who has one speak for its bio-compatibility? I thought some makers shied away from saying their vehicles would run on high % bio was because they had components that wouldn't last bathed in Bio. If I run this mod and also B100 for some months each year, am I going to regret it in a year or two when the pump fails and I'm stranded?

Dan

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:01 pm

The choice of lift pumps is to insure that you're not stranded in case it dies.
You should still be able to run - but just like before you had the pump - whatever stalls shutters you had will still be there - but you shouldn't be stranded.
The real advantage of this mod - if it does die - there are a lot more dealers for Cummins out there who might have a spare - than any of the other pumps discussed.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:16 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

When I get it together, I will report the findings on how the Ross-Tech Vag-Com works for codes. I hope the adapter will work with software that will talk to the CRD ECM.
Steve

Recent vag-com version, I'm running 704.1, and recent adapter, I'm using HESX+CAN, work fine with the CRD's ECM in vag-com's OBDII mode as I reported. It cleared my ORM code several times. It also reads most if not all engine sensors. Or are you talking about software that will modify settings like on VW's? I have not been able to get VAG-COM to find any controllers in the CRD using it's search function. Maybe knowing the exact location would give different results :?:

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:14 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

The choice of lift pumps is to insure that you're not stranded in case it dies.
You should still be able to run - but just like before you had the pump - whatever stalls shutters you had will still be there - but you shouldn't be stranded.

I thought someone had mentioned that it's a flow through when failed design, but I could be wrong. Anyone know about the bio part?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:40 pm

The check valves on the Carter electric fuel pump open at very low pressure, I can blow through it. I did not have the time to construct a manometer and see how many inches of ULSD it took to open the check valves.
My brother at Ford who is a Fuel Systems Engineer let me know that Ford will not put in tank electric pumps on Diesels, external pumps are OK. I ran a smaller Carter electric fuel pump on a 91 Turbo diesel Jetta for over 90,000 with no problems. The vane type pump used in the Bosch VE the Jetta had is similar to the primary pump in the CP3 pump.

Regards,

Steve

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:58 pm

Bio-fuel compatibility -

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/gene ... index.html

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:33 am

gmctd wrote:

Bio-fuel compatibility -

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/gene ... index.html

As useful as that statement is, I'm more concerned with the construction of the pump. Does it appear to be made with modern materials and devoid of natural rubber seals, etc? The gauge sender and body of the unit are nearly identical in construction to the jeep unit, so the pump is the unknown variable.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:35 pm

FYI - I started playing with this and I realized it's not as plug and play as I hoped - back to gmctd post on page 2

Quote:

C307 10pin connector wiring for -
'05 V6_______________________'05 Diesel
1 -- n\c ______________________ 1 - n\c
2 -- fuel guage sensor __________ 2 - Grn\2Rd - lift pump
3 -- fuel guage sensor __________ 3 - n\c
4 -- RWSS ____________________ 4 - Grn\Blu - RWSS
5 -- RWSS ____________________ 5 - Grn - RWSS
6 -- Vacuum Leak Detector________ 6 - n\c
7 -- Vacuum Leak Detector________ 7 - n\c
8 -- n\c _______________________ 8 - DkBlu - fuel guage sensor
9 -- n\c _______________________ 9 - DkBlu\Yel - fuel guage sensor
10 - n\c ______________________ 10 - n\c
Lift pump ground is separate black wire attached to the floorpan, bypassing the 10pin connector

The v6 wiring harness needs line 2,3 switched to pins 8,9 or you can do it the way gmctd did - pull the pump power and ground out of the harness and install it in your harness
(I tried this and it's not easy to do and make it look neat) - it's not much of a problem if you run the wires alongside the existing harness - but to get them in the existing harness - you really need to pull the old harness completely out and insert the new wire.

Important point - To pull the wires out of the harness connectors you really need the wire terminal pick tools - I have small screwdrivers that work really well for most electronics and they don't work well for these connectors.

Oh well - I didn't break anything except a spare harness and I normally do really well the second time I try something.
( I could still solder a couple of wires - but I want it to look factory)

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:02 pm

I had to do that because I had the '06\'07 14pin connector - the FSM is very ambiguous on the V6 and CRD connectors, so I listed only the V6 pinout

You'll need to carefully note and mark down the wire colors\pin numbers on your '06 CRD rear harness connector BEFORE you get started on the swapout - the rear cabin connector will have wires that the CRD rear connector does not - note those positions and colors - the CRD connector will be missing the 3 Vacuum Test Module wires and one fuel pump wire - the fuel pump ground wire is separate and does not pass thru the connectors.

Remove the black plastic safety cage from the rear of the connector - use a small flat-blade screwdriver to remove the rubber weather seal by sliding it back along the wires 3-4".

Looking into the business end of the connector you will see a red cap with two plastic tabs - pull either\both of those to remove the cap from the housing - it just pulls out.

Now you can see the slots with the pins inside - under each slot is a plastic latch tab - push that down to release the pin, pulling the wire out from the rear.

Again, be sure to identify the wiring scheme in your CRD connector vs that of the V6 connector B4 you get started - the main difference is the absence of VTM and lift pump wiring in the CRD connector

It seems much easier to strip the two lift pump wires from the V6 harness and install them in your oem harness - strip the tape from your harness, insert the wires, retape and go.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:25 pm

It would've worked if I could have cleanly pulled the wires out of the connector -
but the wire locks work really, really well - and I needed longer narrower screwdrivers - or the proper tool - a Terminal pick.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:01 pm

That plastic tab is the only lock for the pin - fully depressed unlocks the pin, then just pull the wire out from the rear - the black cage and rubber seal must be removed from the connector housing to facilitate any R&R - remove the gray square blanking plug from the cage to install the new wire in that location.

Come to think of it tho, that may have been easier for me, as I've been doing that all my life, work and hobby - I stripped, collated, drew up schematics, and combined 5 wiring harnesses, without splicing, for my '80's GMC when converting from 6.2 to '95 EFI 6.5 TurboDiesel, all without a FSM for either truck.

There was one green\red stripe wire that totally mystified me, went from the PCM to the radio - refusing to power up the system without knowing exactly what function that wire satisfied, I bought the expensive FSM, only to find that was the automatic volume control, referenced to the speed of the vehicle - it is taped and tied in my truck.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT, and then some

Note - it does help tremendously to push the wire further into the housing B4 depressing the latch tab - the tab is specifically shaped to lock into that rectangular hole in the pin, so it cannot be depressed if the wire is pulled back, as when pulling the rubber seal back out of the housing

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:48 pm

I went to my local Jeep dealer to buy a replacement fuel filter since I have about 9.5K left on my warranty. When I pulled the first connector plug off the fuel heater head so I could fit my hand in there to change it, it was wet with diesel fuel. With out my L.O.S.T. inspired add on lift pump, this problem may have not been found out and could have trashed out my CP3 pump. Before I added the lift pump, I would get at least 1/2 oz of air out of the bleeder every time I cracked it open and pumped up the primer once a week or so.
I have also noticed lately, that my engine cranks five or six strokes when I cold start it where it used to only crank two to three strokes. One time when I had to fly out for a five day work related trip, it would not start with out a jump in the O'Hare parking lot . Part of the problem was not trickle charging my Optima battery after discharging it, but the rest of the problem must be related to having the air leak in the fuel filter head that required the engine to crank extra to start.
When I drop my CRD off next Friday for the Warranty fix, I will yank the fuse to my lift pump so it does not run when they drive it in to fix it.

Steve :wink:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:03 pm

This week end I took my CRD with the Carter lift pump on a trip to down state IL, I did not have any sputtering or rough running, and it climbed out of all the river bottoms I crossed with never having to down shift.
To top off the improved performance, the engine ran smoother and quieter than it has since I bought the Liberty CRD.

The dealer will replace my leaky (at the heater plug) filter head on (1/4/08) .

Steve

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:16 am

I've read all 12 pages of this thread and was not able to find the answer to one question :shock:

The 64 dollar question, for those of us old enough to remember that program, is

Does the 06 cable work out of the box for a 06 or do pins need to be moved around :?:

I've put on the Mopar trailer wiring and had no problem moving pins around if that's the case. Most data is on 05 cables :lol:

After the Master Card recovers from Christmas I'll be ordering my parts :wink:

Joe

Bill.Barg · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:33 pm

I second that question , Joe.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:36 pm

I read this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 179#284179

and this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 200#284200

and this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 253#284253

in another thread.....................

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:04 pm

gmctd wrote:

I read this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 179#284179

and this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 200#284200

and this - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 253#284253

in another thread.....................

Sorry I should have asked "will a 06 V6 harness, part number 56047848AB, work out of the box"? I had already read those threads :lol:

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:51 pm

No prob, Joe - your intent was clear, apparently mine was not - I'm the only one (maybe ATXKJ) that has done this, and I did an '07 into an '05 - noone has done an '06, so there is no as-found as-left info on the '06 - however, it's much much simpler than trying to teach your significant other how to drive a Diesel, or trying to remember to use the green handle at the fuel pump rather than the black handle at the gas pump.

To wit: the CRD rear cabin harness will have a green lift pump wire and pin in the connector - the CRD rear harness connector will have a blanked-off empty position opposite that pin - that's the only firm data that is currently available.

Pull the CRD rear harness from the Jeep, lay it out beside the V6 harness, compare pin positions and wire colors and the difference will be clear - lay the V6 harness inside on the floor, compare the V6 rear harness connector to the CRD rear cabin connector, compare pin positions and wire colors and the difference\similarity will be clear - nothing to worry about.

My back is gray, my hair is dim, and my eyes are old and bent, but I don't as yet feel like expiring - they say three things start to go the older a person gets: one is memory, and while I don't remember the other two, I think you will have absolutely nothing to worry about if you can use a camera and post pics - and then we'll have the '06 CRD\V6 data.

So, whaddaya thimk?

chrispitude · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:58 pm

gmctd wrote:

The CRD rear cabin harness will have a green lift pump wire and pin in the connector - the CRD rear harness connector will have a blanked-off empty position opposite that pin - that's the only firm data that is currently available.

Pull the CRD rear harness from the Jeep, lay it out beside the V6 harness, compare pin positions and wire colors and the difference will be clear - lay the V6 harness inside on the floor, compare the V6 rear harness connector to the CRD rear cabin connector, compare pin positions and wire colors and the difference\similarity will be clear - nothing to worry about.

Yep, once I thought about it some more, I realized that the key pieces are:

make sure the new donor V6 tank harness matches the current tank harness
make sure the two extra lift pump power wires on the vehicle side properly power the two tank-side lift pump connections

Once I realized that it's just a matter of making the new one like the old one, and adding new wires, I think I managed (with gmctd's patient help) to unconfuse myself a bit.

Side question - is there any reason to steer clear of using a junkyard lift pump from a Cummins Ram? I know they usually drain the fluids at the yards, which means the pumps have been dry and potentially exposed to environmental moisture. Would it be better to pay the $165 for a new pump assembly, or are these pumps usually reasonably robust? The age shouldn't be a problem since the vehicle will be relatively new, but I'm wondering if being dry and perhaps damp for an extended period could be something to keep in mind.

We have a local truck junkyard which I'm hoping to scout for an EVIC in the next couple weeks. I may add a fuel pump to the list. If anyone here is interested, I'll see if I can pull a few more.

- Chris

It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

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