It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

Squeeto · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:25 pm

jeepdan wrote:

What model (part #) 05 Cummins pump do you have and what pressure is your lift pump delivering? I think the older model was a lower pressure.

We all thought this but,

crdjoe wrote:

Well I just finished talking to Airtex tech and they said the max pressure on the E7187M is 11.6 psi and on the E7181M is 15.95 psi and I asked twice and the tech rechecked his data also so I hope this doesn't ruin anyones day but I always say its better to know! Go to the source, I was one click away from ordering the E7181M, I like the idea of the lift pump in the tank and I thought I better call Airtex tech support so now you know the true pressure have a good holiday! crdjoe..... its a love hate relationship!

Go with the newer pump. It is all that we need.

falcn · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:32 am

I got the NAPA 610-1050 (Facet Posi-Flo Pemp) installed with a pre-filter. Everything is great except I can not get the darn hose on the inlet of the Jeep filter to not slightly weep. It is acting like the inlet metal tube is not round.

I am crimping the HELL out of it and it is still weeping a little.

Dunno what I can try next...any suggestions?

It does make a HUGE difference in how it runs - starts RIGHT up, picks up from stop immediately - like a whole new Jeep!

Now if I could get that darn weeping to stop. Gotta go to bed now - getting late.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:47 am

Squeeto wrote:

jeepdan wrote:

What model (part #) 05 Cummins pump do you have and what pressure is your lift pump delivering? I think the older model was a lower pressure.

We all thought this but,

crdjoe wrote:

Well I just finished talking to Airtex tech and they said the max pressure on the E7187M is 11.6 psi and on the E7181M is 15.95 psi and I asked twice and the tech rechecked his data also so I hope this doesn't ruin anyones day but I always say its better to know! Go to the source, I was one click away from ordering the E7181M, I like the idea of the lift pump in the tank and I thought I better call Airtex tech support so now you know the true pressure have a good holiday! crdjoe..... its a love hate relationship!

Go with the newer pump. It is all that we need.

Which pump is the newer model?

jeepdan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:52 am

Squeeto wrote:

jeepdan wrote:

What model (part #) 05 Cummins pump do you have and what pressure is your lift pump delivering? I think the older model was a lower pressure.

We all thought this but,

crdjoe wrote:

Well I just finished talking to Airtex tech and they said the max pressure on the E7187M is 11.6 psi and on the E7181M is 15.95 psi and I asked twice and the tech rechecked his data also so I hope this doesn't ruin anyones day but I always say its better to know! Go to the source, I was one click away from ordering the E7181M, I like the idea of the lift pump in the tank and I thought I better call Airtex tech support so now you know the true pressure have a good holiday! crdjoe..... its a love hate relationship!

So let me get this strait in my thick head, The newer model is the E7187M which delivers 11.6psi.

falcn · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:42 am

A coworker had an idea - it seems like the OEM inlet barb tube is undersized compared to all the 3/8 barbs I bought for the pump/filter. He suggested putting some heat shrink on the barb tube to make the OD fit a little better. The stuff I have should be fuel proof - worth a try I suppose.

I put a second clamp on there and that seems to have slowed it greatly, but it is a slow weep now - really aggravating that no other fitting from the pump to the fuel filter head is even hinting at leaking and this OEM one is the problem. darn cheaply made parts. I wonder if I can find a replacement aftermarket Banjo fitting with barb? hmmm.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:40 am

jeepdan wrote:

So let me get this strait ..., The newer model is the E7187M which delivers 11.6psi.

Correct

B99 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:19 pm

I'll have to see if I can find the paperwork, I know the part # superceeded at least once from the one they had posted in here. As for the fuel pressure Im not sure and I dont have a guage.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:41 pm

Speaking of fuel weeping... Check your water drain fitting too, when I pulled my fuel head to replace the glow plugs, the bottom of the filter was disgusting and wet with fuel everywhere. I only have the Mr Gasket diesel pump (Same as the Facet) so there isn't any good reason for the bottom of the filter to be wet, other than the seal down there isn't pressure-proof against the 5psi or so that the Mr Gasket is supposed to be delivering.

I'm back to the factory suction system for now, b/c my Mr Gasket pump broke in half (Of COURSE on the pressure side! ARG!!!!) and pissed out 5 gallons of fuel before the engine stopped... I have to clean off the fuel manager to be certain that there isn't any leaking there, but there is definitely a difference in not having the pump - The engine argues with me for as much as 8-10 seconds of cranking now, even with new metal glowplugs from Etechno.

falcn · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:22 pm

geordi wrote:

Speaking of fuel weeping... Check your water drain fitting too, when I pulled my fuel head to replace the glow plugs, the bottom of the filter was disgusting and wet with fuel everywhere. I only have the Mr Gasket diesel pump (Same as the Facet) so there isn't any good reason for the bottom of the filter to be wet, other than the seal down there isn't pressure-proof against the 5psi or so that the Mr Gasket is supposed to be delivering.

I'm back to the factory suction system for now, b/c my Mr Gasket pump broke in half (Of COURSE on the pressure side! ARG!!!!) and pissed out 5 gallons of fuel before the engine stopped... I have to clean off the fuel manager to be certain that there isn't any leaking there, but there is definitely a difference in not having the pump - The engine argues with me for as much as 8-10 seconds of cranking now, even with new metal glowplugs from Etechno.

Might be a good reason to install the bleeder bypass kit that BlackLibertyCRD did on his CRD... allow excess flow to go back to tank. Hmm.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:04 pm

Squeeto wrote:

jeepdan wrote:

So let me get this strait ..., The newer model is the E7187M which delivers 11.6psi.

Correct

Ok, We need to make a sticky or add something in the tech section to clear up the confusion about what in tank pump to use, considering that the original text states to use a E7181M.
Considering that Sir Sam and myself both have just installed a E7181M lift pumps in our CRDs and now we are faced with how to deal with 15.9psi. pressure. I bought two :dizzy:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:45 pm

jeepdan wrote:

Squeeto wrote:

jeepdan wrote:

So let me get this strait ..., The newer model is the E7187M which delivers 11.6psi.

Correct

Ok, We need to make a sticky or add something in the tech section to clear up the confusion about what in tank pump to use, considering that the original text states to use a E7181M.
Considering that Sir Sam and myself both have just installed a E7181M lift pumps in our CRDs and now we are faced with how to deal with 15.9psi. pressure. I bought two :dizzy:

I installed the E7181M too. No one has reported an issue yet.
The pressure of the E7187M is all that is needed and since it is the replacement to E7181M, may be the only choice in the future.

Are you thinking of Biohazard KJ CRDs write-up?
http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/

I haven't seen him post in a while.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:29 pm

I installed the E7181M too. No one has reported an issue yet.
The pressure of the E7187M is all that is needed and since it is the replacement to E7181M, may be the only choice in the future.
Are you thinking of Biohazard KJ CRDs write-up?
http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/
I haven't seen him post in a while.[/quote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
That's good to hear that there hasn't been any known issues reported yet linked to the use of E7181M
And yes, I was referring to Biohazard's fine write-up. Hats off to all of you creative pioneers in finding solutions to Chrysler's blunders.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:02 am

I found this image off of the Rock Auto website. The Airtex E7187M might not fit the tank, and the plumbing would need modified also.
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getim ... &width=450

Squeeto · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:42 pm

jeepdan wrote:

I found this image off of the Rock Auto website. The Airtex E7187M might not fit the tank, and the plumbing would need modified also.
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getim ... &width=450

Wow!
No one has ordered one of these yet? Why did we think that this was the upgrade to the E7181M? :!:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:50 pm

I think that I kind of guessed this 2 years ago:

Squeeto wrote:

I am starting to think that the E7187M is not the ...AB replacement the dealer gives.

I posted a picture of the E7187M:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41401&start=20

and, down the page, gmctd said:

Quote:

Squeeto, that's similar to the intank conversion unit for the '98-'02 VP44'ed 24v Cummins, uses that rubber gasket 'stead of an o-ring - the '03-'04 CRD version is similar, but lower pressure, ~9psi - the '05^ looks exactly like the KJ, but with a pump motor

Also from http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... 999p6.html

Quote:

The Dodge '05^ in-tank fuel pump meets all the requirements for lift pump service -
- pumps a steady 9psi at idle and WOT at all oem power levels, fully suitable for the CRD HD optional power levels
- is pre-filtered in-tank
- is flow-thru when fail
- the 9-psi regulator is flow-thru when fail
- will supply 9psi at 2gph or ~70gph thru the factory filtration media

So maybe your only options now are E7181M or 5143160AA.
I don't know if the 5143160AB will have too much pressure.

I just ordered the (I believe) last 5143160AA here on the island, shipped for $201 Canadian plus tax.
I have seen them go much cheaper but ...

It would be nice if someone could look at a 5143160AB to confirm the original manufacturer.

But I probably dropped checking it out because I bought the E7181M.

falcn · **Posted:** Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:45 am

falcn wrote:

I got the NAPA 610-1050 (Facet Posi-Flo Pemp) installed with a pre-filter. Everything is great except I can not get the darn hose on the inlet of the Jeep filter to not slightly weep. It is acting like the inlet metal tube is not round.

I am crimping the HELL out of it and it is still weeping a little.

Dunno what I can try next...any suggestions?

It does make a HUGE difference in how it runs - starts RIGHT up, picks up from stop immediately - like a whole new Jeep!

Now if I could get that darn weeping to stop. Gotta go to bed now - getting late.

New 14mm crush washers stopped the leak - it looked like it was the hose leaking around the barb, but it was in fact dripping very lightly down from the old crush washers.

No leaks at the WIF sensor either.

Loving what the lift pump does for the CRD. I made a bracket to mount it behind the battery. Just made a simple L bracket that uses the battery clamp bolt and holds the pump elevated so it is not rubbing on any of the wires behind the battery.

falcn · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:09 am

falcn wrote:

New 14mm crush washers stopped the leak - it looked like it was the hose leaking around the barb, but it was in fact dripping very lightly down from the old crush washers.

No leaks at the WIF sensor either.

Loving what the lift pump does for the CRD. I made a bracket to mount it behind the battery. Just made a simple L bracket that uses the battery clamp bolt and holds the pump elevated so it is not rubbing on any of the wires behind the battery.

Sigh - well I checked under the hood again when I got home. Still a slight leak at the hose end on the inlet of the filter. It was not the crush washers.

I took the lower of the two band hose clamps and moved it directly over the wide part of the nipple of the barb and clamped it down. This did stop the leak - I cycled the ignition key several times to check and this time the leak was truly not there. I was right the first time - either the 3/8" hose I got is oversize (DOUBT IT - since ALL the other 3/8" barbs in the system from the pump inlet to outlet to inline filter all sealed with NO ISSUE) or the crappy OEM banjo is undersized too much past the barb nipple.

I may or may not replace it with another 14mm banjo fitting hell I may go Banjo - AN fitting and replace the lines from the inline filter with fancy AN fittings and hose as well all the way back to the new pump outlet.

I will keep an eye on it again for the week - but this time there wasn't even a hint of a leak - blew it all dry with the air hose to verify.

falcn · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:48 pm

falcn wrote:

I may or may not replace it with another 14mm banjo fitting hell I may go Banjo - AN fitting and replace the lines from the inline filter with fancy AN fittings and hose as well all the way back to the new pump outlet.

I will keep an eye on it again for the week - but this time there wasn't even a hint of a leak - blew it all dry with the air hose to verify.

I ended up replacing the banjo bolt barb fitting with one with an actual 3/8" hose barb on it.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64076

BobFarley · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:33 pm

72commando wrote:

Did a little more internet sleuthing and i may have found something!

With the part numbers in hand from this writeup: http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/

I need 2x 54001800 (female) and 1x 54001801 (male)

Well, I found a company with no minimum order (mouser.com). They were backordered for the females of that part number, but had other seemingly identical connectors with different alloys. I went ahead and ordered every female 18-20 gauge variant they had, as well as the males. Order total? $1.57 + S&H (estimated $5 USPS).

We'll see how it goes - I'll report back here what I find. I guess I just can't bring myself to buy a $60 wiring harness for 3 terminals. I mean, I'm all for Just Emptying Every Pocket, but... :shock:

Great Find!!! Hope your install went well! Dodge/Cummins lift pump sitting in garage...tank out, harness out...waiting on pins to adapt the factory CRD harness!!!

Did say KUDOS on the great find!!!

altdiesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:06 am

I am gong to do this mod soon, and I have read everything in this post, also all the other posts about going with an Airtex lift pump.

What is the recommended part number? I have seen three being talked about:

E7181M less flow, 15.95 psi

OR

E7187M more flow, 11.6 psi

So... It looks like both are still available, just what one to go with is the question. Would love to hear feedback from people who have one or the other.

It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

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