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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:45 am 
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Required is -

Dropping the fuel tank - not too difficult, even easier with a helper and his new blue healer puppy

1@ '05-'06 Dodge 2500\3500 Cummins fuel tank module with 9psi 5amp continuous duty fuel transfer (lift) pump

1 @ KJ I4\V6 fuel tank harness to match your year model - the connectors are different, as '05 has RW ABS, '06-'07 has 4w ABS
Or, any year - just transfer the black ground wire and green\red stripe or blue\red stripe power wire to your harness - the connector terminals are easily removed and transferred.


Module, Fuel Pump 2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
5143160AA $156.21

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2006 LIBERTY 3.7L
56047848AB $51.78

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2005 LIBERTY 3.7L
56050284AB $35.85


C307 10pin connector wiring for -
'05 V6_______________________ Rewired for '05 CRD
1 -- Fuel Guage Sender gnd _____ 1 - n\c
2 -- Lift Pump _________________ 2 - Lg Grn\2Rd - Lift Pump
3 -- Fuel Guage Sender sig ______ 3 - n\c
4 -- RWSS ____________________ 4 - Grn\Blu - RWSS
5 -- RWSS ____________________ 5 - Grn - RWSS
6 -- Vacuum Leak Detector________ 6 - n\c, don't care
7 -- Vacuum Leak Detector________ 7 - n\c, don't care
8 -- n\c _______________________ 8 - DkBlu - Fuel Guage Sender gnd
9 -- n\c _______________________ 9 - DkBlu\Yel - Fuel Guage Sender signal
10 - n\c ______________________ 10 - n\c
Lift pump ground is separate black wire attached to the floorpan, bypassing the 10pin connector

C307 14pin connector for -
'06 V6 ________________________'06 CRD (wiring in cabin connector)
1 -- n\c ______________________. 1 -- n\c..........(Blu\Grn)
2 -- lift pump _________________. 2 -- LgGrn\Orn .... Lift pump
3 -- RR ABS __________________. 3 -- n\c..........(Blu\Yel)
4 -- RR ABS __________________. 4 -- Grn\Blu ........ VSS
5 -- ESP ______________________ 5 -- Grn\Gry ....... VSS
6 -- Vacuum Leak Detector _______ 6 -- n\c ....... (Vio\Gry)
7 -- Vacuum Leak Detector _______ 7 -- n\c ....... (Vio\Wh)
8 -- fuel guage _________________ 8 -- Brn\Grn ........ Fuel Sender
9 -- fuel guage _________________ 9 -- Brn ............... Fuel Sender
10 - LR ABS ___________________ 10 -- Grn\Yel ......... VSS
11 - LR ABS ___________________ 11 -- Wh\Grn ......... VSS
12 - n\c ______________________. 12 -- n\c
13 - n\c ______________________. 13 -- n\c
14 - n\c ______________________. 14 -- n\c
Lift pump ground is separate wire attached to the floorpan, bypassing the 14pin connector


The large bulkhead pass-thru in the floorpan is easily removed from beneath (after unbolting and moving the seat and carpet) by depressing four tabs on the in-cab circumference.

ECM-controlled power wiring is furnished to the connector under the left rear seat, oem-rated 10amp continuous duty - just plug'n'pump with only minor connector pin reconfiguration
Reference - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=23099

The CP3 internal lift pump handles any required bypass chores, so fuel line connection is direct, no external bypass needed, no cutting\splicing, no hassle

Dodge designed the fuel module for the Bosch CP3 on the big Cummins engine, so the electric lift pump is draw-thru - engine will run as normal if in-tank pump fails.
The Dodge module, like the Jeep module, is designed for anti-slosh\anti-foam service, and has much better primary filtration than the Jeep version, which has NONE!

Fuel supply and return lines\fittings are identical, as the basic module assemblies are identical, with exception of the indexing tab.
Can assemble the Jeep upper to the Dodge lower if you use rubber tubing and hose clamps - doesn't appear to be necessary, at this time, as the offset is minor.

After install, do the }key ON - key OFF - key ON{ routine to enable the 25sec prime function which will bleed the air from the filter manager head - won't need the primer button for this, from this juncture on.
Close the bleeder valve, then do it again, checking for leaks from rear to front - air leaks too small to show up in the Jeep system will be readily evidenced at 9psi

System is not noisy - gotsta be very near the tank to hear the pump with 1/2 tank fuel.

Dodge fuel tank sender module is identical in form and function to the Jeep version - just plug'n'guage

Also pic'ed is the Cummins fuel manager head by Fleetguard - note the ease of fuel filter replacement with the top-loading assembly
It is side-feed from the tank, bottom-feed to the CP3 IP, uses the banjo-type fuel fittings
Has fuel heater, Water in Fuel: WIF drain is that yellow lever - fuel temp sensor can be clamped to the inlet
Plus, note the ease of fuel filter replacement with the top-loading assembly

Several models attach from the top, as this one - several attach from the front, like the Jeep head
This top-mount type can be drilled for front mounting - just transfer the hole-pattern from the Jeep version

**************************************************************************

Note the pic with the nylon vent-cap - that is your fuel tank breather vent, part of the filler system - note how it is at floorpan level - next time you're in water over the wheels, imagine the spatial relationship of that breather to the surface of the water, particularly if parked therein, as one member's avatar suggests
I replaced that 2" hose stub with a 2' rubber emissions hose to extend ours to the fuel filler area

Note also that the rear axle vent is at the same heighth - time to get it to higher ground, also - cannot at this juncture understand why Jeep "Trail-rated" these KJ's, except that the badge is explicit in omitting the "-and stream" qualification

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


Last edited by gmctd on Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:38 pm, edited 19 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:52 am 
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gmctd wrote:
Required is -

Dropping the fuel tank - not too difficult, even easier with a helper and his new blue healer puppy

1@ '04-'06 Dodge 2500\3500 Cummins fuel tank module with 9spi fuel transfer (lift) pump

1 @ KJ I4\V6 fuel tank harness to match your year model - '05 has RW ABS, '06-'07 has 4w ABS
Or, any year - just transfer the black ground wire and green\red stripe or blue\red stripe power wire to your harness - the connector terminals are easily removed and transferred

The large bulkhead pass-thru in the floorpan is easily removed from beneath (after unbolting and moving the seat and carpet) by depressing four tabs on the in-cab circumference (we'll get more pics manana)

ECM-controlled power wiring is furnished to the connector under the rear seat - just plug'n'pump

The CP3 lift pump handles any required bypass chores, so connection is direct, no hassle

Dodge designed the system for the Bosch CP3 on the big Cummins engine, so the electric lift pump is draw-thru - engine will run as normal if in-tank pump fails (even appears to have better primary filtration)

Supply and return lines\fittings are identical, as the basic module assemblies are identical, with exception of the indexing tab.
Can assemble the Jeep upper to the Dodge lower if you use rubber tubing and hose clamps - doesn't appear to be necessary, at this time, as the offset is minor

After install, do the key ON - key OFF - key ON routine to enable the 25sec prime function, bleed the air from the filter manager head - don't need the primer button for this, from this juncture on
Close the bleeder valve, then do it again, checking for leaks from rear to front - air leaks too small to show up in the Jeep system will readily evidence themselves at 9psi

System is not noisy - gotsta be very near the tank to hear the pump with 1/2 tank fuel

Dodge fuel tank sender is identical in form and function to the Jeep version - plug'n'play
**************************************************************************

Note the next to last pic - that is your fuel tank breather vent, part of the filler system - note how it is at floorpan level - next time you're in water over the wheels, imagine the spatial relationship of that breather to the surface of the water, particularly if parked therein, as one member's avatar suggests
I extended ours to the fuel filler area

Note also that the rear axle vent is at the same heighth - time to get it to higher ground, also - cannot at this juncture understand why Jeep "Trail-rated" these KJ's, except that the badge is explicit in omitting the "-and stream" qualification


your saying, all the 05 4x4s, only have the rear wheels on ABS? and the 06 4x4s have 4 wheel abs?
(in contrast all the XJ had 4wheel ABS, so that would be a step down IMO)

The only vehicle I have ever had like that was a 2wd isuzu, rodeo, at it was worthless with the ABS.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:06 am 
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Good question
- rear wheel ABS has a sensor at each front wheel, while using the vehicle speed sensor input on the rear differential for rear wheel input - simpler, but effective for non hi-performance use
- 4w ABS uses a sensor at each wheel, was more for hi-performance use, but is required for modern traction-control, which the '05 has optionally, and the '06-'07 has as standard - either way, they now have 4w ABS

Thus, that rear harness is different, requiring a larger 14pin connector under the rear seat to include the two twisted-pair harnesses to the rear rake rotors - I hadda rework that harness\connector setup in the dark, last nite, then do the fuel pressure check - took from 1900 to 2100hrs (7 to 9pm) to finish up.

Ok - 0200hrs - time to hit the rain-locker, then the sack fer a few - gonna assist Darby later this mornin'.....................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


Last edited by gmctd on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:39 am 
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First off, good work!! :D

Second, in essence what this really tells us is the following -

DC already had the parts in stock and in use to where they could have simply dropped in a fuel module with a lift pump from the get-go - just speced a different P/N for the fuel module on the assembly line and a different P/N for the fuel tank harness - no extra expense for R & D or for labor - because they considered it to be nothing more than a market test vehicle they were just too frakkin cheap to bother putting in a lift pump. :evil:

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'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:43 pm 
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gmctd wrote:
Good question
- rear wheel ABS has a sensor at each front wheel, while using the vehicle speed sensor input on the rear differential for rear wheel input - simpler, but effective for non hi-performance use
- 4w ABS uses a sensor at each wheel, was more for hi-performance use, but is required for modern traction-control, which the '06 has optionally, and the '07 has as standard - either way, they now have 4w ABS

Thus, that rear harness is different, requiring a larger connector under the rear seat for the two twisted-pair harnesses to the rear rake rotors - I hadda rework that harness\connector setup in the dark, last nite, then do the fuel pressure check - took from 1900 to 2100hrs (7 to 9pm) to finish up.

Ok - 0200hrs - time to hit the rain-locker, then the sack fer a few - gonna assist Darby later this mornin'.....................


Interesting, I must investigate this further.

retmil46 wrote:
First off, good work!! :D

Second, in essence what this really tells us is the following -

DC already had the parts in stock and in use to where they could have simply dropped in a fuel module with a lift pump from the get-go - just speced a different P/N for the fuel module on the assembly line and a different P/N for the fuel tank harness - no extra expense for R & D or for labor - because they considered it to be nothing more than a market test vehicle they were just too frakkin cheap to bother putting in a lift pump. :evil:


Sure does seem that way, does the cummins as well use the cp3? since I am not into big trucks I can never remeber.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
...does the cummins as well use the cp3? since I am not into big trucks I can never remeber.


Yes, the Cummins uses the cp3 starting (I think) in 04. Also, your Dodge parts PDF doesn't seem to cover the diesel? Not complaining, the price is still very reasonable. :wink: I was curious to research the part number since these trucks are going to be hard to find in the junk yards for most of us.

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05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:32 pm 
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Goglio704 wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
...does the cummins as well use the cp3? since I am not into big trucks I can never remeber.


Yes, the Cummins uses the cp3 starting (I think) in 04. Also, your Dodge parts PDF doesn't seem to cover the diesel? Not complaining, the price is still very reasonable. :wink: I was curious to research the part number since these trucks are going to be hard to find in the junk yards for most of us.


No refunds. :lol:

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"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:55 pm 
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I did a little nosing around and it seems that the trucks were orginally fitted with an in-line pump but the failure rate was so high that all replacement pumps are the in-tank design. Dodge no longer sell the "origninal" lift pump. Something about the inline does not get adaquate lubrication so they had a lot of impeller failures.

At least that is what I think found out.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Pretty sure that was the 98 - 02 models. They had a nasty habit of lift pump failure followed by VP44 injection pump failure. My employer went through this on one of our company Dodges. I drive the other one and have installed a new pump and low pressure warning light to keep me out of trouble.

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05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Goglio704 wrote:
Pretty sure that was the 98 - 02 models. They had a nasty habit of lift pump failure followed by VP44 injection pump failure. My employer went through this on one of our company Dodges. I drive the other one and have installed a new pump and low pressure warning light to keep me out of trouble.

The '90-02' did have a problem, but the '03 and '04s w/the common rail also had an inline pump. That pump is no longer available and the replacment is the in tank pump, this is that same pump that the '05 and newer trucks have from the factory. So far it has proven to be reliable. This is a good find!!!!! Like the plug and play!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:50 pm 
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Problem with the '98-'02 24valve with VP44 is same as we have - the fuel lift pump is mounted up at the front with the motor - the fuel is mounted at the back, with the tank - it is a draw-type system, not good for Cummins, not good for VM Motori - and yes, they both use the Bosch CP3, Cummins since '03, Jeep since '05 - dunno about the 2.5, but prolly hadda CP1

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Part #s
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:49 am 
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Are these the right part #s?
(from MoparPartsAmerica http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ ... eid=214583 )

Fuel Pump 2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
5143160AA $156.21 or 5143162AA ??

WIRING FUEL TANK 2006 LIBERTY 3.7L
56047848AB $51.78

WIRING FUEL TANK 2005 LIBERTY 3.7L
56050284AB $35.85

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------
06 CRD LTD - Suncoast TC- Shift Kit - Spicer UJ - FRKNLIFT - F37 - Magnaflow - 22.0 City - 24@65MPH - Fumoto F-102 - AUX T Cooler - Tank Lift Pump


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:12 am 
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Image

Image

Image

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: part #s
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:37 am 
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GMCTD,

Thanks for the part picts.

For the life of me... I cant get those part #s to match with the Dodge or Jeep part numbering online.

I must be doing something wrong...

EDIT...

Okay.. the harness is from 2007 and the part number appears in the MOPAR parts catalog.
The fuel pump still has me stumped...

Bill

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------
06 CRD LTD - Suncoast TC- Shift Kit - Spicer UJ - FRKNLIFT - F37 - Magnaflow - 22.0 City - 24@65MPH - Fumoto F-102 - AUX T Cooler - Tank Lift Pump


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:54 am 
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I think the stores p\n doesn't always match the index p\n - possibly you could ease down to MrMoparts to get some hands-on, then order by their index #

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: Re: part #s
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:56 am 
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Bill.Barg wrote:
GMCTD,

Thanks for the part picts.

For the life of me... I cant get those part #s to match with the Dodge or Jeep part numbering online.

I must be doing something wrong...

EDIT...

Okay.. the harness is from 2007 and the part number appears in the MOPAR parts catalog.
The fuel pump still has me stumped...

Bill


Not all parts/PN come up in the search via the online suppliers too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:47 am 
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The P/N gmctd is showing in the first pic is most likely for the fuel tank module. Whether or not that comes complete with a fuel pump already installed, no idea. Trying matching the P/N on the first pic with the fuel tank module and see what comes up, or just call the parts desk at a local dealer, verify if that is the P/N for a fuel tank module, and ask them if it comes complete with fuel pump installed.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:51 am 
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Went to wholesalemopar.com , did a catalog search. Used an '06 Dodge Ram 2500 as the base vehicle. Using the side menu, I selected fuel system, then fuel system components, then fuel pump assy, then diesel. Came up with two options, for either a 34 or 35 gallon tank, list $212, sale price $158.

Think I'll stick with my Kennedy pump. Lots easier to change out if it ever does bite the bullet.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Thanks for the part number suggestions.

Mitchell; I guess it is important to note that your system also has the fuel cooler, which is missing from the In Tank set up.

For me it is the "all mopar" solution that has me interested, for warrantee issues, as well as resale. Neither may make any difference in the long run. It is also that it seems easier to just "plug-and-play" and in theory, it would be pretty easy to go back to stock, if needed.

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------
06 CRD LTD - Suncoast TC- Shift Kit - Spicer UJ - FRKNLIFT - F37 - Magnaflow - 22.0 City - 24@65MPH - Fumoto F-102 - AUX T Cooler - Tank Lift Pump


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:18 pm 
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That's a good choice, too, Mitchell, and probably best for most folks - ease of installation\replacement is the downside to the intank module - I personally would find it difficult to trust anyone anywhere to R&R the fuel tank - or, anything else on one of my vehicles, for that matter - long as these old hands can put tools to task, I am my own warranty

You and several other members have proven the magnetic-drive rotary pump from KennedyDiesel, several others have proven the Facet solenoid pump, with and without bypass.
I think it's safe to remove the bypass, BTW - the CP3 Inj Pump will do that for ya
The electric pump really should be remote-mounted at the tank to take full advantage of the pressurized-system concept, tho, which also proves suspected leaks

We have the GM 6.5 and Facet solenoid pulse pumps - I was thinking to use the GM in-line frame-mount pump to demo another option, but I know it will work - several million GM 6.5TD's have proven that over kazillions of collective miles! - and, I just didn't want to cut the fuel pipes on #2son's Jeep.

I thought it would be entertaining, and maybe even interesting, to do the in-tank version with factory-available stuff to provide another option - I would have installed a GM in-tank pump designed for the throttle-body systems( by reworking the 14psi pressure-relief spring, if necessary), had no DCX option presented itself.
It's a lot safer to play around (that's shadetree-ese for R&D) with Diesel fuel equipment than with gasoline - they both provide the required cooling for the powerful little motors, but an in-tank motor-driven rotary pump should have much longer service life submerged in the light oil, imo.

Next is the fuel-return line cooler, which you've also demo'd and proven, here - the KJ wheebase is too short to provide adequate fuel cooling for heavy-duty service, such as towing, or even stop-lite events - rail pressure hits 22,500psi, even in stock form, with only the SEGR mod, at rapid acceleration events - pressurization makes heat - that's gotta go somewhere, preferably not in the KJ fuel tank - ECM will reduce fuel flow as from-tank fuel temperature increases, measured at the fuel manager head by the Inlet Fuel Temperature sensor.

Also next is 3" exhaust

Also also next is Inmotion ECM, to see if transmission control is improved by the Euro tune

It just never ends - hopefully............ 8)

jd

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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