LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Hydrogen Boost:

What is the low ignition temperature point of Hydrogen? Diesels are heat-ignition engines, expecting to have a non-combustible intake charge as compression temperature climbs toward 1600degF, where injected Diesel fuel readily ignites

dual fuels are getting to be popular. hydrogen is not the best route though, expensive to make and what not. LPG or CNG are preferable. word on the street is that CNG costs about $.90 per equivalent gallon of gasoline, maybe a bit more for diesel equivalency, but you need a $2000+ compressor for it to work. LNG is around $3/gallon, but you can buy it at the corner store if need be.

I found a universal dual fuel LPG kit for $1200. the only CNG dual fuel kit I have seen is for big rigs, but the technology might trickle down soon

fuel savings are huge for duel fuel, I found advertisements between 25% and 95% depending on the system integration. the more radical systems only use diesel to start the fire (5%), like a spark plug, the rest of the 'bang' is from the gaseous fuel (95%). EGTs are a problem though, they need to be watched to prevent manifold cracking.

Sir Sam

Ripple wrote:
dual fuels are getting to be popular. hydrogen is not the best route though, expensive to make and what not. LPG or CNG are preferable. word on the street is that CNG costs about $.90 per equivalent gallon of gasoline, maybe a bit more for diesel equivalency, but you need a $2000+ compressor for it to work. LNG is around $3/gallon, but you can buy it at the corner store if need be.

I found a universal dual fuel LPG kit for $1200. the only CNG dual fuel kit I have seen is for big rigs, but the technology might trickle down soon

fuel savings are huge for duel fuel, I found advertisements between 25% and 95% depending on the system integration. the more radical systems only use diesel to start the fire (5%), like a spark plug, the rest of the 'bang' is from the gaseous fuel (95%). EGTs are a problem though, they need to be watched to prevent manifold cracking.

GGE(gasoline gallon equivalent) is not 90 cents per GGE at any pump.

The only way you might aproach that price is via a homefillup without road tax.

Used to have a CNG crown vic, short range, purchased when CNG was at a all time high, only benefit was the ability to intimidate traffic in the former police car, and the particularly clean engine oil.

Author:	Jim Friese [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Hydrogen Boost:
Has any of you ever tried to inject Hydrogen into the air system of the Liberty. I was wondering if that would help on the MPG? Let me have you thoughts please. Jim

Author:	UFO [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:
I suspect it will only improve mileage on inefficient engines. If the diesel is already being burned optimally, like in most modern vehicles, the energy input to the hydrogen generator will greatly exceed the energy return from burning it.

Author:	gmctd [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:
What is the low ignition temperature point of Hydrogen? Diesels are heat-ignition engines, expecting to have a non-combustible intake charge as compression temperature climbs toward 1600degF, where injected Diesel fuel readily ignites

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Propane is added frequently... I think Diesel burns 75% efficient...read that somewhere...and gas about 60%. What are the other benefits of buring Hydrogen? Better emission? Ect.?

Author:	Jeger [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:
gmctd wrote: What is the low ignition temperature point of Hydrogen? Diesels are heat-ignition engines, expecting to have a non-combustible intake charge as compression temperature climbs toward 1600degF, where injected Diesel fuel readily ignites useful info http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf

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Author:	gmctd [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Cool - or, rather hot, as it's combustible fuels - thanks - Octane rating of +130, eh?

Author:	Ripple [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:
dual fuels are getting to be popular. hydrogen is not the best route though, expensive to make and what not. LPG or CNG are preferable. word on the street is that CNG costs about $.90 per equivalent gallon of gasoline, maybe a bit more for diesel equivalency, but you need a $2000+ compressor for it to work. LNG is around $3/gallon, but you can buy it at the corner store if need be. I found a universal dual fuel LPG kit for $1200. the only CNG dual fuel kit I have seen is for big rigs, but the technology might trickle down soon fuel savings are huge for duel fuel, I found advertisements between 25% and 95% depending on the system integration. the more radical systems only use diesel to start the fire (5%), like a spark plug, the rest of the 'bang' is from the gaseous fuel (95%). EGTs are a problem though, they need to be watched to prevent manifold cracking.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:35 am ]
Post subject:
Ripple wrote: dual fuels are getting to be popular. hydrogen is not the best route though, expensive to make and what not. LPG or CNG are preferable. word on the street is that CNG costs about $.90 per equivalent gallon of gasoline, maybe a bit more for diesel equivalency, but you need a $2000+ compressor for it to work. LNG is around $3/gallon, but you can buy it at the corner store if need be. I found a universal dual fuel LPG kit for $1200. the only CNG dual fuel kit I have seen is for big rigs, but the technology might trickle down soon fuel savings are huge for duel fuel, I found advertisements between 25% and 95% depending on the system integration. the more radical systems only use diesel to start the fire (5%), like a spark plug, the rest of the 'bang' is from the gaseous fuel (95%). EGTs are a problem though, they need to be watched to prevent manifold cracking. GGE(gasoline gallon equivalent) is not 90 cents per GGE at any pump. The only way you might aproach that price is via a homefillup without road tax. Used to have a CNG crown vic, short range, purchased when CNG was at a all time high, only benefit was the ability to intimidate traffic in the former police car, and the particularly clean engine oil.

Author:	retmil46 [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Theory is that adding hydrogen to the mix improves the combustion efficiency of the diesel/hydrogen or gas/hydrogen mixture to the point that the end result is you get more additional useful power out of the fuel mix than what it took to produce the hydrogen in an onboard generator. In other words, the hydrogen isn't being added as an additional fuel, but as a "catalyst" or "combustion enhancer" to get more useful power out of the primary fuel. Basically, same theory as adding 8 ounces of Power Service to a 20 gallon tank of diesel to raise the cetane level. You're not trying to generate enough hydrogen to be able to run the engine off of it, just enough to form a certain percentage of the air/fuel mix, ie a "fuel additive". For that matter, you wouldn't necessairily need an electrolysis generator to produce hydrogen. I've seen plans kicking around where you could build a DIY hydrogen generator that uses scrap aluminum (ie, cut up beer cans) and sodium hydroxide (ie, Red Devil lye or Drano) and the chemical reaction between the two to produce hydrogen. There's actually a prototype fuel system for Fuel cell vehicles called the Powerball concept floating around. It feeds balls of aluminum powder into a tank of sodium hydroxide to produce hydrogen onboard, instead of trying to store it in high pressure or cryogen tanks. In the past, I've seen advertisements for onboard hydrogen generators for OTR trucks for this same purpose.

Author:	Jeger [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:
LOL...nothing like having a works bomb under the hood eh?

Author:	Jim Friese [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Hydrogen Boost
Thanks for all of the input, I guess I have the Hindenburgh syndrome. I still might geve it try. If I do I'll let you all know how it works out. Jim

Author:	Ripple [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Sir Sam Ripple wrote: dual fuels are getting to be popular. hydrogen is not the best route though, expensive to make and what not. LPG or CNG are preferable. word on the street is that CNG costs about $.90 per equivalent gallon of gasoline, maybe a bit more for diesel equivalency, but you need a $2000+ compressor for it to work. LNG is around $3/gallon, but you can buy it at the corner store if need be. I found a universal dual fuel LPG kit for $1200. the only CNG dual fuel kit I have seen is for big rigs, but the technology might trickle down soon fuel savings are huge for duel fuel, I found advertisements between 25% and 95% depending on the system integration. the more radical systems only use diesel to start the fire (5%), like a spark plug, the rest of the 'bang' is from the gaseous fuel (95%). EGTs are a problem though, they need to be watched to prevent manifold cracking. GGE(gasoline gallon equivalent) is not 90 cents per GGE at any pump. The only way you might aproach that price is via a homefillup without road tax. Used to have a CNG crown vic, short range, purchased when CNG was at a all time high, only benefit was the ability to intimidate traffic in the former police car, and the particularly clean engine oil. thats right, that number is with a home compressor. used, they run 1500-3500 bucks. I understand pump prices (if you can find a pump) are much more.

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