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Thanks for the tips. I want to do the orm but I need step by step instructions. I know there are instructions on this site but I need step 1) do this Step 2) do this, so based on what I saw here, it wasn't crystal clear - I am not a mechanic. Also, is there a manual somewhere with all this stuff with illustrations? Just figuring out how to empty the water separator was challenging enough. It says in the Jeep manual to do it, but does not give one diagram as to where it is. I found it and figured it out, but it should not be that trying.
Back to the mileage, I know the 2 vehicles are very different. However, the Pilot was rated 17/22, and I did get 15/20 pretty regularly. The CRD is rated 21/26. So to be getting 17 seems like I have been had. The only consolation is that yes I am getting better than my old vehicle - albeit not that much better.

I have my pressure at 40 psi. I can't necessarily get into od because the speed limits are 45 and under.
I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's?
The other thing is that the mileage is off, like you say. I am probably getting more like 16.5. Hardly seems worth the size downgrade from my Pilot which gave me 15mpg around town.
I do anticipate lights and turns, I accelerate slowly and smoothly. I really nurse it.
Most of the time I use 40 cetane. There is a station here that sells 45, but I have not noticed a difference in the mileage.
Also, diesel here is $3.70 a gallon. Unleaded reg. is $3.30. I am just about breaking even cost wise. At least I am using a little less fuel than before.......

Back to the mileage, I know the 2 vehicles are very different. However, the Pilot was rated 17/22, and I did get 15/20 pretty regularly. The CRD is rated 21/26. So to be getting 17 seems like I have been had. The only consolation is that yes I am getting better than my old vehicle - albeit not that much better.

I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's?
.......

I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's?

groovin1 wrote:

I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's?

Yes, the RPMs are higher in neutral than in drive when stopped. However, the RPM-fuel link is only very loosely true on a gasoline engine, and even less so on a diesel engine (where there is no air/fuel ratio to maintain).

In neutral, the engine is not under load. In drive, the engine is under a load because the transmission is trying to push the vehicle forward, and your foot on the brake pedal won't allow it.

Let's use an analogy. Let's say you have a stationary exercise bike. When the resistance is completely taken off, you can pedal at a reasonable rate without breaking a sweat. When resistance is applied, you will pedal slower, but also require more energy to do it.

That being said, I personally would not shift into neutral at every light.

- Chris

I am about 140 miles from Blakeslee. I think it would be worth the trip to have them look it over. How can I get the name?
I have tried the neutral thing at a stop light, and neutral is higher rpm's than sitting in drive.

Author:	groovin1 [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:	crd mileage
I am getting app. 17 mpg in local driving with my 06 Liberty CRD. Forget the computer. I calculate it by hand. The computer tells me I am getting 19 - 20, but it is wrong. Even though it is rated 21 mpg city, I thought I would get 19 or 20. I have a real light foot. What gives?

Author:	bbo [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:
loads of other factors can come into play ... winter fuel now tire pressure soot buildup last oil change? oil used? I'm sure others can add into this

Author:	mcnaughb [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:31 am ]
Post subject:
That's 1MPG better than me and I have tried cleaning the MAP, tried the ORM for a tank, good air filter, ran straight #2 fuel, etc. Even on the freeway for 800 miles I have never been better than 24.

Author:	Threeweight [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:20 am ]
Post subject:
Stop and go city driving, with lots of idling at stop lights, kills the mileage on my CRD. With bigger tires AT tires (235/75/16 Destination AT's) I get 28+ on the highway at 64 mph... I get 18-19 on a tank of nothing but city driving. Unfortunately, a fuel efficient diesel helps a little, but you are still having to accelerate 5,000 pounds of SUV from a dead stop over and over. Look at it this way, you could be getting 14 mpg with the gasser doing the same route.

Author:	0311_DoC [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:18 am ]
Post subject:
well I can tell you since I got my lift my armor, front bumper and my tires I took a huge hit in mileage. evic shows avg of around 20.4 MPG at 65-70 MPH on the highway.

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Author:	MOSFET [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:38 am ]
Post subject:
The cold will also decrease your mileage. Mine always drops in the winter.

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:11 am ]
Post subject:
EPA is 19 city/21 combined/23 highway I have a lift and taller tires with armor...my running average since hypermiling is 22+ and 90% is city. I get 29+ highway but I go about 64mpg. GasSavers.org has a "Garage" section where you can track your mileage and it calculates your 5 over/under EPA combined. It also has some great suggestions to improve mileage. Raise your tire pressure...I run my tires at 50psi and rotate them every 3,000 miles. The extra psi really helps lowerr rolling resistence. Put your tranny in neutral when stopped...your engine uses 15.7mm3 of fuel sitting still in "Drive" and only 6.4mm3 sitting still in "Neutral"...keeping the TC loaded is the reason. Watch lights in traffic...try to anticipate red lights and coast whenever you can to a stop...makes a big difference. Try to be in OD...first OD hits at ~53 and second hits at ~63...try to hit one of those when going those speeds and then back down just a bit. Seems like best mpg is at ~1800 rpm. On the highway I try to stay at around a true 64 mpg via GPS. Remember to adjust your miles driven...your odometer shows that you have traveled less miles than you actually have...could be why your overhead display reads different than your hand calculations. With stock tires mine was ~4% less than actual miles. With 29.87" tires...it is 6% off.

Author:	chadhargis [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:
I guess I've been extremely lucky. Even after the InMotion tune, I still get 28mpg on the highway (25.1 last time I towed my trailer with my motorcycle on it) and I get about 19-20mpg in the city. I should add that I have a lead foot, and I love the torque of the little beast. I keep my foot in it pretty good. I run at least 75mph on the interstate, and I am picky about where I buy fuel. I have found that fuel makes the difference. If I get "skunky" fuel, the exhaust stinks and my mpg drops dramatically. There are only a few stations around that I trust and that will return good mileage. On a trip it's hit or miss.

Author:	groovin1 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:31 am ]
Post subject:
I have my pressure at 40 psi. I can't necessarily get into od because the speed limits are 45 and under. I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's? The other thing is that the mileage is off, like you say. I am probably getting more like 16.5. Hardly seems worth the size downgrade from my Pilot which gave me 15mpg around town. I do anticipate lights and turns, I accelerate slowly and smoothly. I really nurse it. Most of the time I use 40 cetane. There is a station here that sells 45, but I have not noticed a difference in the mileage. Also, diesel here is $3.70 a gallon. Unleaded reg. is $3.30. I am just about breaking even cost wise. At least I am using a little less fuel than before.......

Author:	Threeweight [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:45 am ]
Post subject:
The Pilot is a very different vehicle... car based (basically the Honda mini-van with all wheel drive). The Liberty CRD has a much beefier drive train (with more mechanical friction to burn up fuel). Look at it this way... even ay 16.5 mpg, you are getting 10% better than the Pilot. Unfortunately, diesels shine for fuel economy at highway speeds, not so much for stop and go driving. In the city, they are just ok. My wife's Jetta can push 45 mpg on the highway, but has been averaging around 27 mpg in the city. In addition to the suggestions made above, make sure your air filter is clean, check and clean your MAP sensor, do the ORM mod, and see if that helps. Higher cetane diesel contains more energy per unit, and should always give better mpg. Given the amount of city driving you do, it might be hard to notice much difference. If the prices were comperable, I'd run it anyway.

Author:	groovin1 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:52 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks for the tips. I want to do the orm but I need step by step instructions. I know there are instructions on this site but I need step 1) do this Step 2) do this, so based on what I saw here, it wasn't crystal clear - I am not a mechanic. Also, is there a manual somewhere with all this stuff with illustrations? Just figuring out how to empty the water separator was challenging enough. It says in the Jeep manual to do it, but does not give one diagram as to where it is. I found it and figured it out, but it should not be that trying. Back to the mileage, I know the 2 vehicles are very different. However, the Pilot was rated 17/22, and I did get 15/20 pretty regularly. The CRD is rated 21/26. So to be getting 17 seems like I have been had. The only consolation is that yes I am getting better than my old vehicle - albeit not that much better.

Author:	0311_DoC [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:53 am ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: Thanks for the tips. I want to do the orm but I need step by step instructions. I know there are instructions on this site but I need step 1) do this Step 2) do this, so based on what I saw here, it wasn't crystal clear - I am not a mechanic. Also, is there a manual somewhere with all this stuff with illustrations? Just figuring out how to empty the water separator was challenging enough. It says in the Jeep manual to do it, but does not give one diagram as to where it is. I found it and figured it out, but it should not be that trying. Back to the mileage, I know the 2 vehicles are very different. However, the Pilot was rated 17/22, and I did get 15/20 pretty regularly. The CRD is rated 21/26. So to be getting 17 seems like I have been had. The only consolation is that yes I am getting better than my old vehicle - albeit not that much better. did you see this? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=22631 As far as I know you just unplug the wire on top of the air cleaner....

Author:	chrispitude [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:00 am ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: I have my pressure at 40 psi. I can't necessarily get into od because the speed limits are 45 and under. I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's? The other thing is that the mileage is off, like you say. I am probably getting more like 16.5. Hardly seems worth the size downgrade from my Pilot which gave me 15mpg around town. I do anticipate lights and turns, I accelerate slowly and smoothly. I really nurse it. Most of the time I use 40 cetane. There is a station here that sells 45, but I have not noticed a difference in the mileage. Also, diesel here is $3.70 a gallon. Unleaded reg. is $3.30. I am just about breaking even cost wise. At least I am using a little less fuel than before....... Hi groovin1, Yep, the culprit is that you do most of your driving out of lockup. We got a nice improvement in our around-town fuel economy when we upgraded to the Suncoast torque converter. It has a lower stall speed which is a better match to the CRD's low-RPM torque band. Your fuel economy will go up, and it will feel like it's not working as hard during your around-town driving (accelerating from stops and going up hills). I see you are in NY. I don't know how far you are from Blakeslee, PA but there is a great transmission shop there who loves the CRD and would enjoy upgrading yours as well. The Suncoast was a great driveability upgrade for us. The ORM will also make a nice difference! - Chris

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:08 am ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: Back to the mileage, I know the 2 vehicles are very different. However, the Pilot was rated 17/22, and I did get 15/20 pretty regularly. The CRD is rated 21/26. So to be getting 17 seems like I have been had. The only consolation is that yes I am getting better than my old vehicle - albeit not that much better. You have got it backwards... about the odometer. If you go 100 miles on your odometer you have really gone about 104 so you have gone 4% farther than indicated. 17 would really be 17.68 and so on. The CRD is rated 19/23 (new EPA Ratings) not 21/26

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Author:	DarbyWalters [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:20 am ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's? ....... Why don't you try the suggestion and look for yourself?

Author:	chrispitude [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:56 am ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's? Yes, the RPMs are higher in neutral than in drive when stopped. However, the RPM-fuel link is only very loosely true on a gasoline engine, and even less so on a diesel engine (where there is no air/fuel ratio to maintain). In neutral, the engine is not under load. In drive, the engine is under a load because the transmission is trying to push the vehicle forward, and your foot on the brake pedal won't allow it. Let's use an analogy. Let's say you have a stationary exercise bike. When the resistance is completely taken off, you can pedal at a reasonable rate without breaking a sweat. When resistance is applied, you will pedal slower, but also require more energy to do it. That being said, I personally would not shift into neutral at every light. - Chris

Author:	Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:00 am ]
Post subject:
chrispitude wrote: groovin1 wrote: I always thought higher rpm's means you are burning more fuel. Isn't neutral at a light higher than drive in terms of rpm's? Yes, the RPMs are higher in neutral than in drive when stopped. However, the RPM-fuel link is only very loosely true on a gasoline engine, and even less so on a diesel engine (where there is no air/fuel ratio to maintain). In neutral, the engine is not under load. In drive, the engine is under a load because the transmission is trying to push the vehicle forward, and your foot on the brake pedal won't allow it. Let's use an analogy. Let's say you have a stationary exercise bike. When the resistance is completely taken off, you can pedal at a reasonable rate without breaking a sweat. When resistance is applied, you will pedal slower, but also require more energy to do it. That being said, I personally would not shift into neutral at every light. - Chris I do it mostly because I get tired of keep my foot on the pedal.

Author:	groovin1 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:59 am ]
Post subject:
I am about 140 miles from Blakeslee. I think it would be worth the trip to have them look it over. How can I get the name? I have tried the neutral thing at a stop light, and neutral is higher rpm's than sitting in drive. If my odometer says I went 1 mile, I did not. I went less. My od seems to be off about 2mph according to my gps. If it says 44mph, and I am going really 42, I am not traveling as far, therefore the mileage is really a bit less, not more. Either way, the difference is negligible enough to notice, but not obsess about. Thanks again for all the info. I would be lost without this!

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:
The Speedo reads optimistic...The Odometer reads pessimistic. If you don't believe this still...get on the highway and sttart at a "mile marker" and set you tripometer to zero...drive 50 miles (for a good sampling). Your tripometer should read about 48 even tho you have traveled 50. As for the RPMs in neutral vs drive, they change about 30-40 rpms but the fuel usage goes up 2.5X in Drive vs Neutral...but do what you want. I still to neutral while I am still rolling forward to a stoplight (at low speeds for shrt distances). It does work.

Author:	chrispitude [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:
groovin1 wrote: I am about 140 miles from Blakeslee. I think it would be worth the trip to have them look it over. How can I get the name? I have tried the neutral thing at a stop light, and neutral is higher rpm's than sitting in drive. Give Pocono Transmission Center a call (click for link) at 570 646-0338. Ask for Tom, and tell him that Chris with the Liberty CRD sent you. He'll treat you right, and he can also order the Transgo shift kit for you at a discount, and install that as well. - Chris