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Is the CRD offered in manual anywhere in the world?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27260		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Donkeykong [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Is the CRD offered in manual anywhere in the world?
Just curious.
I wanted a CRD but it wasn't available with a manual tranny here in the US. (at least what I could find in late 2006)
Thanks.
-Mark
Author:  Goglio704 [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, the CRD is available elsewhere with the manual. It was not offered here for emissions reasons apparently.
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Don't think the decision not to offer it here with a manual had anything to do with emissions, at least I have never ready anything like that.

I think it had to do with the US market's overwhelming preference for automatics for passenger cars/SUV's.
Author:  Desert_Busa [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Americans believe in marketing. Why on earth would a dealer sell a manual transmission vehicle? These are the cheap cars with plastic seats, rubber mats, and no insulation. I like this auto, but would take a loss if next year a stick CRD was offered.
Author:  onthehunt [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm pretty sure it was emissions. They can control rpm's with the auto trans to increase egr use and prolong the systems life.
Author:  Uffe [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Desert_Busa wrote:
Americans believe in marketing. Why on earth would a dealer sell a manual transmission vehicle? These are the cheap cars with plastic seats, rubber mats, and no insulation. I like this auto, but would take a loss if next year a stick CRD was offered.


You mean you want a Limited with a manual? Doesn't exist.

You can get a sport with a manual, and then upgrade the interior to be like a Limited. I have a sport with cruise control for instance...
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Uffe wrote:
Desert_Busa wrote:
Americans believe in marketing. Why on earth would a dealer sell a manual transmission vehicle? These are the cheap cars with plastic seats, rubber mats, and no insulation. I like this auto, but would take a loss if next year a stick CRD was offered.


You mean you want a Limited with a manual? Doesn't exist.

You can get a sport with a manual, and then upgrade the interior to be like a Limited. I have a sport with cruise control for instance...


No. In the US the CRDs were only sold with automatic transmissions and NP242 4WD. He is lamenting the fact that he didn't have the option that the rest of the world did.
Author:  Donkeykong [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:49 am ]
Post subject: 
I want a diesel with a manual. Unfortunatley they aren't available in the US.
-Mark
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Donkeykong wrote:
I want a diesel with a manual. Unfortunatley they aren't available in the US.
-Mark

Beat ya to it by seconds!
Author:  Uffe [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Sir Sam wrote:

No. In the US the CRDs were only sold with automatic transmissions and NP242 4WD. He is lamenting the fact that he didn't have the option that the rest of the world did.


I thought it was a silly argument that an autobox had something to do with the interior trim of a car.

I might have misunderstood it though. If you wish to have the option of a KJ with a manual so bad you can import it from other countries. Denmark is a good country to pick because our taxes are so high the manufacturers have to give a rebate in order to sell anything here. Obviously if you export the car from Denmark you don't pay the high taxes but you benefit from the rebates from the manufacturer.

An example.

My mom recently moved to France from Denmark. She broke with the danish society and government to move to her house in France. She bought her FRENCH car in Denmark and exported it to France. She saved $8,000 by buying a French car in Denmark and exporting it to France again. Now if that's not idiocy, what is? ;)

And why wouldn't it work with the US? Customs is too rough? In the EU we don't pay special taxes, because we have a free internal trade agreement.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
We had this discussion before - if you import an non-US model (and a manual would be non-Us because Jeep didn't sell it here) then you are responsible for proving that it can meet US emission specs - it could probably do it but testing it would be expensive -(unless Jeep was right and lugging a Diesel will overwhelm the emission components they have in place).
Author:  Uffe [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
[rant]

Bogus law. They have the same engine. Why would emissions be different? Oh yeah, the auto box is less efficient than a manual, so over the lifetime of the vehicle the manual would be even better with regards to emissions. But don't let facts get into lawmaking - it doesn't in Denmark, why would it be different in other countries.

[/rant]
Author:  CATCRD [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Uffe wrote:
[rant]

Bogus law. They have the same engine. Why would emissions be different? Oh yeah, the auto box is less efficient than a manual, so over the lifetime of the vehicle the manual would be even better with regards to emissions. But don't let facts get into lawmaking - it doesn't in Denmark, why would it be different in other countries.

[/rant]


Think about it, in a manual when you shift gears you are constantly going on and off boost, but with an automatic, boost stays up between gearshifts. They could not get as constant EGR flow if boost is fluctuating as much.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Uffe wrote:
[rant]

Bogus law. They have the same engine. Why would emissions be different? Oh yeah, the auto box is less efficient than a manual, so over the lifetime of the vehicle the manual would be even better with regards to emissions. But don't let facts get into lawmaking - it doesn't in Denmark, why would it be different in other countries.

[/rant]


Theres more than that, you need to prove emissions compliance, prove crash compliance. etc etc.

Its not illegal to import or anything, just very hard to do.
Author:  UFO [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
On the other hand, if you could bring a half-cut manual CRD, you could convert a US model, and no one would be wiser.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
UFO wrote:
On the other hand, if you could bring a half-cut manual CRD, you could convert a US model, and no one would be wiser.


that would be prohibitively costly. for that matter if I got a half cut CRD I would be putting it into a wrangler or something else.
Author:  jinstall [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Automatic is a 1130 euro option on the Limited. You can buy a Limited with a 6-speed manual tranny in Germany.
Author:  UFO [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sir Sam wrote:
UFO wrote:
On the other hand, if you could bring a half-cut manual CRD, you could convert a US model, and no one would be wiser.


that would be prohibitively costly. for that matter if I got a half cut CRD I would be putting it into a wrangler or something else.
I agree, but putting the diesel into a vehicle not originally delivered with one has issues of its own. But to put a manual into a US spec CRD would be transparent to the licensing authorities, as all they know is that it's still a diesel.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
UFO wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
UFO wrote:
On the other hand, if you could bring a half-cut manual CRD, you could convert a US model, and no one would be wiser.


that would be prohibitively costly. for that matter if I got a half cut CRD I would be putting it into a wrangler or something else.
I agree, but putting the diesel into a vehicle not originally delivered with one has issues of its own. But to put a manual into a US spec CRD would be transparent to the licensing authorities, as all they know is that it's still a diesel.


agreed, though at that point you hardly need a half cut.

honestly though, its alot of trouble just to get a manual in the Jeep. and IMO, I never much cared for a manual jeep when 4wheelin. dirving around town, highways, sure, but wheelin, gimme an auto.
Author:  Uffe [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
CATCRD wrote:

Think about it, in a manual when you shift gears you are constantly going on and off boost, but with an automatic, boost stays up between gearshifts. They could not get as constant EGR flow if boost is fluctuating as much.


Yeah sure that "might" be a very tiny problem. What about the power loss of the auto box? There is a good reason why a manual just doesn't need a dedicated cooler like the auto does! The auto box dissipates power from the engine in the form of heat, that is there are more losses on an auto than on a manual.

In the long run you'll not care at all about your "on and off boost" situation as when you have engaged your gear you have minimal mechanical losses, which I think is of far greater importance than the on-off power situation you mention. City driving is the place for an auto but otherwise a manual will beat it because it is just more efficient.

Regarding EGR doesn't that also go with the rpm of the engine. So if the rpm goes down and the flow as well there's no harm done - things match up?

IIRC EGR only comes on when the engine is cold, so the EGR issue is also very limited.
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